To tell colleagues what happened with boss? Am I allowed to say if I’m still employed?

[SofieM0]

Grievance at work partially upheld. Advised (by friends, peers, other HR colleagues) not to appeal as it’s basically end of my career, outcome unlikely to change and I’d have to resign anyway.
Grievance against boss so he definitely has influence. It was a drunken verbal and physical attack, witnessed by many. I can’t stay in the job. Feel let down by company not to mention the working relationship is untenable for me.
AIBU to tell colleagues (inc other female direct reports to him) why I’m leaving, am I even allowed to whilst I’m still in employment? What about new employers, can I tell them the truth whilst I job search?
I’ve asked my HR but they’ve said they can’t discuss that until the grievance is formally closed (believe pushing me to not appeal).

I would also seriously consider reporting the incidents to the police.

Was it an event organised by the company? Ie work drinks or similar.

As I had a verbal discriminatory attack thing and was told that legally the complaint had to be treated the same as if it had occurred in the office - we were out for a work-organised meal event.

Have they asked you to sign a non disclosure statement? if they do they need to pay your legal fees to get you teh advice to do so in my experience.

And... make sure you get copies of all the interview statements and keep them somewhere safe

I would go to the police and they can request CCTV -

I cant give any advice and others have said some great things, but as a lay person reading along, this is shocking and I hope you are ok.

If your company has an external employee assistance programme they normally offer free legal advice, and it's kept confidential from the company. I agree with a PP, do a subject access request now before they start to delete things. I'm a HR professional & I'd take it as far as you can, it's a good case for a tribunal

This smells like constructive dismissal to me. Absolutely appeal and take it further. I bet you they’ll settle because if this were to go to tribunal and therefore public, it would cause far more reputational damage. Fight this please OP!

Three out of five, including verbal and physical, upheld. So what is the outcome? Is he being dismissed? Or are they suggesting you go back to work as normal with this manager? You might not appeal the other two, but you have grounds to ask for an outcome - ask to be moved, or for him to be moved, so that you don’t need to work together. Tell them you are going to report this to the police as you have witnesses and an upheld grievance. If they don’t act to protect you, look into constructive dismissal. You really need a union rep and/or some legal advice.

I think you should take this to a tribunal (constructive dismissal) as there is no way you can work there after this. I am so angry on your behalf, please get some good legal advice.

I was about to say it looks like constructive dismissal too.

So they know for certain that his version of events is unreliable but have chosen to accept that version over yours anyway. That doesn't stand up to impartial scrutiny at all.

Of course it would be hugely damaging to their reputation if this got out. Given that, I’m surprised they aren’t doing anything to mitigate that damage by sacking him.

If this was witnessed, it will have gone all round their competitors already. Don’t shut up about it, make a massive fuss. Get the police involved. Don’t let them sweep this under the carpet.

What they are trying to do OP, is drive you out, hopefully out of the industry entirely, and then they can say you are bitter and made it all up. It stinks, don’t let them do that to you.

Hi my DH was a trade union rep. The Union can provide specific legal advice and send a rep to sit with you and represent you in every meeting. They can also fully support you throughout any appeal or tribuneral. A quick Google will tell you your union for your area of business and you become a member the day you sign up. You can also demand that HR delay any meetings until you have representation. Any representation and legal advice are completely free. Your HR has already broken so many important employment laws already, having a rep present would stop that in its tracks as they wouldnt let them get away with it.

Leigh Day are excellent. I know one of their senior solicitors, who is a lovely, lovely person, and I also know a family who were awarded millions due to a horrendous employment failure on the part of EY (completely different branch of the firm represented them).

They are highly regarded in this field and act solely for employees. They are the firm who represented the Deliveroo and Uber drivers and secured them employment rights. They can discuss what they call Conditional Fee Arrangements, which used to be called 'no win, no fee' but my friend tells me that it is often better, with a really clear case, to opt for traditional charging where the case is clear cut, as you get to keep more of the settlement.

www.leighday.co.uk

It's also worth checking your household insurance, as surprisingly often it contains legal cover, too? If so you won't have to pay, yourself, for legal advice.

I'm so sorry you are in this plight. Sadly, HR are going to try to protect their senior staff, and the company reputation, as a priority. Agree the Subject Access Request is important now. I'd send some random emails about anodyne matters, and print off a list of all sent and received emails, as you can cross refer when you get the disclosure (another friend told me that - also a lawyer but not in this field - he said he often sends emails mentioning a client before a SAR, to be certain everything is disclosed).

It is not constructive dismissal. For a start, it would require the OP to have resigned at risk with immediate effect, employment contract effectively torn up, no notice period.

..a household name ehh!

Serious reputations risk at stake for them here.
Sad to say that it sounds like the organisation is rife with utter incompetence.
And, that the HR dept seems to be leading the way... so this might need escalating to the HR director or another senior leader (Director)

Adding to advice not to resign yet (when/if you do I'd be clear it's due to their actions and so 'constructive dismissal), encouragement to appeal and get legal advice through whatever means you can. If you can't get hold of a solicitor in the 5 days, appeal anyway - setting out the parts of the outcome letter/decision you disagree with and why. You can expand on grounds before or at the appeal hearing.

Regarding 'being drunk' comment in the outcome letter - was this used as a reason for it to be 'partially upheld'? Because if so I'd go for that as something no reasonable employer would do - it might be mitigating circumstance for him if he was to face a disciplinary hearing but it's not relevant to the grievance, which is about the facts of what he did or did not do.

Agree with other advice so far about aiming for a settlement - if they want your silence they should pay for it. And they are just scaring about the 'bringing company into disrepute' if you tell other employers. If what you say is entirely factual and truthful, and said in good faith there is little they can sue you for. The outcome letter is yours - you can show it to whoever you like (though I'd redact any names/personal information about witnesses etc).

Most EAPs won't go near employment issues, it's not in their best interests to start pissing off the people that pay them, so the legal cover is for everything but employment matters

Wrote a massive message about this and it won't post so here are the bullets:

Go off sick with stress. That buys you time.
Speak to ACAS to get legal advice and work out if they've broken the law or their own policies.
Make printed copies of everything related - emails, outcomes, policies. They may well know you're doing this but it helps show you're serious about a tribunal. It helps if you need to update the police with this as then that's a copy off company servers that's harder to argue you're not allowed to do.
Report to the police asap. Ask ACAS if you can discuss the police report even if not the actual grievance. Be factual - e.g. I've reported so and so for the police for an event he admitted can be proven to be true.
Don't discuss the grievance as that can be gross misconduct.
Is there something for a sexism case on him treating you differently to a man? Think that's unlimited payouts so they're more likely to settle out of court with a non disclosure agreement (which should be about 6 months pay as a starter).
Be extremely clear on the outcome you want from the grievance. It's been upheld - how are they preventing it happening again and supporting you in the wake of it? If you're reasonable it also helps.

It's a crappy process so please get mental health support. I've been through it with HR thankfully on my side after someone threatened me at work and it was incredibly stressful and took months to come out ok but it is ok now and I'll be stronger and more informed going forwards. More to the point, I'll recognise the bastards sooner and know how to beat them.

Good luck.

Banter can't be used as an excuse when one person is so senior to the other though can it?

Legally I mean.

Recruiter here. This is good advice OP.

I would also be careful about discussing it with people at your workplace in the meantime. At least in the workplace itself. If you have a work bestie you trust that knows about this already, that you can speak to outside of work that’s one thing, but be careful about just telling everyone else why you’re leaving. If you appeal, your employer could try and use you discussing it with others, against you.

As the incidents were witnessed by other work colleagues, then when you leave I’d guess it would be highly likely they’ll all discuss it between themselves anyway, if they haven’t already.

Wow everyone I am overwhelmed with all your messages and thank you for taking the time to write and help me. There’s some great info in here and I’m going to sit down tomorrow and pull it all together. Then go through the ACAS and legal steps.
And I will update again tomorrow on this thread with where I’ve gotten to. 🙏