To tell colleagues what happened with boss? Am I allowed to say if I’m still employed?

[SofieM0]

Grievance at work partially upheld. Advised (by friends, peers, other HR colleagues) not to appeal as it’s basically end of my career, outcome unlikely to change and I’d have to resign anyway.
Grievance against boss so he definitely has influence. It was a drunken verbal and physical attack, witnessed by many. I can’t stay in the job. Feel let down by company not to mention the working relationship is untenable for me.
AIBU to tell colleagues (inc other female direct reports to him) why I’m leaving, am I even allowed to whilst I’m still in employment? What about new employers, can I tell them the truth whilst I job search?
I’ve asked my HR but they’ve said they can’t discuss that until the grievance is formally closed (believe pushing me to not appeal).

OP I think you would get better advice if you moved this to employment.

If a drunken incident was witnessed I am struggling to see how it would only be partly upheld and how there would be no grounds for appeal. Have you sought legal advice?

Have you reported to the police?

Surely if it was a public drunken attack people know already?

Were you the one doing the attacking? Cos why would you being attacked mean the end of your career? I'm a bit confused.

Hi Op, this is one you need proper legal advice for. As a first step Id recommend you contact ACAS

I agree with the poster who said contact ACAS asap. This is outrageous.

For whatever reason you are presenting information in a a one sided way which frankly doesn’t make sense.

If your manager attacked you verbally and physically whilst they were drunk in front of numerous witnesses, how on earth is it that this not the end of their career. Not many employers would side with the manager / more senior in that scenario!

Why would you think you WOULDN’T be allowed to tell them?

Surely if it was a public drunken attack people know already?

You took the words out of my mouth ...

I’m also confused as to how a witnessed attack has not resulted in his immediate sacking.

Your boss verbally and physically attacked you in front of witnesses but you only partially won your complaint? If there were witnesses, then surely everyone in the company already knows why you don't want to stay!
I don't see why anything that has been upheld by their own grievance procedure can't be repeated as they hold it to be true. If it's not been upheld, then I guess you could be sued for slander or defamation?

If it was witnessed then I imagine everyone knows anyway. Never worked anywhere that gossip like that doesn't get around quicker than Usain Bolt

Did you attack him as this makes no sense otherwise?

It's very difficult to say based on your post (I understand you are trying to not give too much info to avoid being identified). There are many questions that would change the responses you get here. I would phone ACAS as a start where you can be more open with the information and get more legally correct responses.

@Minfilia they said not to mention it until process was finished. Also did want me saying anything to other companies as highly competitive market & wouldn’t want them to know/share.
yes some colleagues are aware but again have been asked to wait until process completed before sharing - they were told that during their interviews as my grievance witnesses. Also they’ve said they wouldn’t tell anyone anyway as also worried about their careers. They were not overly happy to witness on that basis but did so.
3/5 incidents (verbal and a physical restraint) upheld. 2 (physical) not upheld as happened away from witnesses. I too can’t believe it’s not the end of his career.
the end of my career comes from the fact that I can’t stay, I don’t feel comfortable and if I did, would at some time in the future be looked negatively at as he is my boss! I know I could start legal proceedings if any of that happened but honestly I can’t stay anyway.
I contacted ACAS who advised me to seek legal but I can’t get any legal to see me before the appeal deadline which is Wednesday (you only get 5 days). Left messages for a couple today but not heard back.
I just want to let my female colleagues know and hand in my resignation. Maybe I’ll wait until I get paid and then do it so if I’m in breach of something by speaking up, then I won’t get pay withheld.
Ill try to move this to employment too.
thanks!

He physically restrained you but hasn't lost his job?

@sweeneytoddsrazor correct. He did it 3 times and 2 of them were witnessed and upheld. But ‘he was drunk and didn’t mean any harm’ quote from the outcome letter.
based on the things that have been upheld, I thought the non witnessed things could have been easily believed but seem to be relying on them not being witnessed so they don’t have to uphold them. Also the non-witnessed incidents are being denied.

Okay, so it's not so much "Don't tell them" as "Don't discuss it"(?)

Unfortunately, having seen it happen, I can believe all too well that it won't necessarily be the end of his career, especially if he's very senior, related to the owners or deemed to be particularly valuable to the company

Never mind the appeal deadline; I'd consult ACAS anyway, since your employer's own processes don't have to be the end of this

I will go back to ACAS tomorrow.
Re telling people, yes something along the lines of not gossiping to people as it’s not fair until process completed etc etc and all my witnesses are junior too and tbh have surprisingly kept quiet. But they’re all men…not sure if that makes a difference?!
I was specifically told I cannot share with potential new employers whilst still employed as bringing company into disrepute and also most of my potential employers are direct competitors and share a lot of the same customers as us. So they definitely do not want it getting out.

you need to discuss with a solicitor. when I was attacked the union agreed payment package and reference and then it was signed.

no witnesses doesn’t mean it didn’t happen - did you go to the police ?

Really sorry this has happened to you OP. What do you want out of this situation?

From a pragmatic perspective, you either 1. go back to work and accept the grievance outcome - were any recommendations made?

1. Appeal and conclude the process
2. Ask for a WP conversation to see if you can get some money out of the situation
3. Resign and move on.

I'd recommend that you at least do 2 to keep your options open. If you absolutely don't want to work there then find out who is head of HR and ask for a Without Prejudice conversation because you don't feel safe working for a company who has a manager there who has assaulted you.

Fwiw - they won't uphold your appeal. They can't if they don't have evidence. This isn't on you btw, although I suspect it will feel very very personal. But you need to conclude the process.

Feel free to message me if you want some help with writing the appeal x

I would take this out of the work place and make it a criminal matter. Report to the police and take it as far as you need to- sounds horrific!

@Artsuggestions2022 yes someone mentioned a settlement package that could be offered to give me a reference in exchange for keeping quiet. That was a friend but hadn’t heard of them before.
im going to ring some solicitors tomorrow see if I can get half hour free and maybe pay for a consultation.
no I didn’t go to the police. Lots of drink involved, he kept denying it and it wasn’t a punch or anything just bending my arm to restrain me and honestly I didn’t think it serious enough or that I’d be believed. And obvs on the latter I haven’t been! He also admitted, as it said in the outcome letter, that it wouldn’t have done it to a man?!

do you have a trade union rep who can seek support and accompany you to the appeal meeting?
if you truly believe that your continued employment is untenable then the situation is now potentially falling under “constructive dismissal”
Without doubt given that a number of these serious allegations have have been upheld Im hugely surprised that no action has been taken against the accused Manager. Verbal and physical attacks of any nature usually fall under “ gross misconduct” a different ball game to “misconduct”Check your company handbook and If this is the case and the company haven’t acted responsibly by taking action against him then they are both incompetent and irresponsible with regard to the risk from this guy to their company reputation and to their other employees. Don’t resign. Advise them that you wish to appeal. The 5 days is usually related to actually advising you wish to appeal or not. The actual meeting takes place later affording you time to access legal advise.

I know I’ve written ‘just an arm bend’ but that’s how they’ve made me feel.

@feministqueen thank you for your offer. I will give you some more detail privately see what you think.