I wonder how Leave voters feel about P&O Ferries.

yellowsuninthesky · 23/03/2022 15:13

This had nothing to do with Brexit (and I voted to remain). Employment laws have not changed in the UK since we left the EU (which must be really really REALLY annoying for all the Tories who wanted us to leave the EU so that workers could be exploited).

Nicholethejewellery · 23/03/2022 15:15

No not really. What's it got to do with Brexit? The ships are registered in Cyprus. The company is owned by Dubai. What happened here, if it's legal, could equally have happened if we were still in the EU. Have the Irish and French workers who've been sacked fared any better given that those countries are still in the EU?

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 23/03/2022 15:16

Surely it helps reenforce the narrative that it’s never a good idea to import lots of cheap labour, like people who are happy to sign up to zero hour contracts

PinkFluffyUnicornSlippers · 23/03/2022 15:17

Can you explain how this is related to Brexit?

Original poster

lecreusetpeppermill · 23/03/2022 15:18

Ah, I had a simplistic view of this, not too well up, sorry.

I think i was just curious about the double standard - people wishing to reduce immigration but accepting it if we can exploit them.

I see this is more complex.

OP posts:

Smokeahontas · 23/03/2022 15:18

I do hope you warmed up well before you performed this session of mental gymnastics.

ChiswickFlo · 23/03/2022 15:19

Chris Grey on the P&O sackings and Chris Grayling

Development in how the P&O story subtly interacts with Brexit. In Feb 2018 Chris Grayling changed the law so shipping firms had to give notice of sackings to the country where the boat was registered, not UK (that wasn't a 'Brexit freedom', it hadn't happened then). But
... what may be forgotten is that in Jan 2019 "P&O announced it will be re-flagging its entire UK-registered fleet to Cyprus ahead of Brexit, in order to keep its tax arrangements within the European Union". It seemed like another cost of Brexit.
At the time P&O said "We have no plans to make any other changes, including the terms and conditions of any of our seafarers, as a result of the new arrangements"
This doesn't mean Brexit enabled the sackings - Grayling's law change and the re-flaggings preceded and didn't require Brexit. But the re-flaggings were overtly a response to Brexit and once they happened 'Grayling's law' became relevant to the boats concerned.
twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/1506536652855988227?s=21

Original poster

lecreusetpeppermill · 23/03/2022 15:19

@PinkFluffyUnicornSlippers

Can you explain how this is related to Brexit?

Not so much about brexit as wondering how leave voters feel about the story.

OP posts:

Justcallmebebes · 23/03/2022 15:25

Nice try OP but this is a Dubai owned company so absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.

KittensTeaAndCake · 23/03/2022 15:28

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 23/03/2022 15:29

The only link is all the Torie MPs who say how vile it is also go out of their way to reduce workers rights and encouraged the leave vote

DirectionToPerfection · 23/03/2022 15:31

Sure, the new direct routes between Ireland and France, that were set up as a direct result of Brexit, have nothing to do with it.

Pre-Brexit, hauliers used the UK as a landbridge between Ireland and continental Europe. That has all stopped now and of course that has impacted on demand for the UK routes.

CMZ2018 · 23/03/2022 15:32

😂 wth are you even talking about OP, clueless.

TheRealityCheque · 23/03/2022 15:41

@lecreusetpeppermill

I know many people voted one way or the other for different reasons, but those who were concerned about immigration 'swallowing jobs' or driving wages down.......how do they feel about this recent story?

Do they not feel lied to?

How is this related to Brexit?

Original poster

lecreusetpeppermill · 23/03/2022 15:42

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

The only link is all the Torie MPs who say how vile it is also go out of their way to reduce workers rights and encouraged the leave vote

this interests me. I am wondering, considering their efforts (or lack of) to keep their 'red wall', how the average leave voter feels about the subject. I dont know any to ask, sadly no takers here

OP posts:

nearlyspringyay · 23/03/2022 16:03

It's
Nothing to do with Brexit!

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 23/03/2022 16:08

@DirectionToPerfection

Sure, the new direct routes between Ireland and France, that were set up as a direct result of Brexit, have nothing to do with it.

Pre-Brexit, hauliers used the UK as a landbridge between Ireland and continental Europe. That has all stopped now and of course that has impacted on demand for the UK routes.

So we have fewer massive lorries thundering across England/Wales/Scotland on the way to Ireland? And that's a bad thing?

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 23/03/2022 16:10

the average leave voter
Despite a desire to paint everyone who voted leave as a particular type - there is no such thing.

Userg1234 · 23/03/2022 16:16

Quick history lesson. I am from a port town. All but about 2 or 3 of my father's generation went to sea in the merchant navy 2 of my generation did. I am 53
The change to containers and the ability to reflag ships to avoid UK law and employ cheap staff from India and the far East did for the British sailor.

BeautifulGreenEyes · 23/03/2022 16:19

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nurserypolitics · 23/03/2022 16:19

I believe it actually is linked to Brexit - intra-EU ferries have to obey EU employment laws, ie you can't have a ferry from France ti Ireland paying workers 3 euro/hour. Post-Brexit, UK-originating ferries aren't intra-EU (obviously)

So this wouldn't have happened without Brexit, but equally I'm not sure why. it wouldn't. be. in the gift of the UK government to stop it happening anyway so it feels a bit moot.

nurserypolitics · 23/03/2022 16:23

And actually the main people whose views on this would be interesting ar the pro-Brexit transport unions. They're in a hard place though: an anti-nationalisation pro-private finance government and an EU wedded to workers. freedom of movement. I'd genuinely like to know if they feel. lied to or like. they were. stuck between a rock and a hard place. and gave it a good go.

You say you don't know. any Brexit voters OP, do you know any ferry workers?

girlmom21 · 23/03/2022 16:26

I think i was just curious about the double standard - people wishing to reduce immigration but accepting it if we can exploit them.

Ah the good old 'people who voted leave hate immigrants and did it because they're xenophobic' angle. I haven't seen one of these threads for at least 36 hours!

I voted remain and I think you're being ridiculous.

Justkeeppedaling · 23/03/2022 16:27

Pre-Brexit, hauliers used the UK as a landbridge between Ireland and continental Europe. That has all stopped now and of course that has impacted on demand for the UK routes.

It doesn't seem to have affected the number of EU/European registered lorries trucking up and down the M4 on a daily basis.

Smokeahontas · 23/03/2022 16:45

@nurserypolitics

I believe it actually is linked to Brexit - intra-EU ferries have to obey EU employment laws, ie you can't have a ferry from France ti Ireland paying workers 3 euro/hour. Post-Brexit, UK-originating ferries aren't intra-EU (obviously)

So this wouldn't have happened without Brexit, but equally I'm not sure why. it wouldn't. be. in the gift of the UK government to stop it happening anyway so it feels a bit moot.

How did Irish Ferries do it in 2005, in that case?

m.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-ferries-will-abandon-routes-unless-staff-go-quietly-25967299.html