I wonder how Leave voters feel about P&O Ferries.

[lecreusetpeppermill]

I know many people voted one way or the other for different reasons, but those who were concerned about immigration 'swallowing jobs' or driving wages down.......how do they feel about this recent story?

Do they not feel lied to?

It's inevitable I fear - cheap labour moving into UK jobs.
I read the front pages of foreign papers (in english) the same thing all over. I think it was a Brazilian paper that had a ranting headline about their IT graduates being poached abroad.
People move to the best paying place or whatever - Uk residents have always moved abroad - the Middle East/ USA etc
Indians/Phillipinos are moving here.

@lecreusetpeppermill

I know many people voted one way or the other for different reasons, but those who were concerned about immigration 'swallowing jobs' or driving wages down.......how do they feel about this recent story?

Do they not feel lied to?

If anything, remain voters are the ones who were happy with unlimited low skilled immigration which pushed down wages (mostly affecting the working class that they hate so much), to service their cheap takeaway coffees and push up their house prices/filled their buy-to-lets. I doubt that middle class remain voters care about low wages and competition as long as they get their cheap ferry ride to France.

If anything, remain voters are the ones who were happy with unlimited low skilled immigration which pushed down wages (mostly affecting the working class that they hate so much), to service their cheap takeaway coffees and push up their house prices/filled their buy-to-lets. I doubt that middle class remain voters care about low wages and competition as long as they get their cheap ferry ride to France.

Blaming Brexit on working class voters is nothing but a lie. Very comfortable home countries pensioners with big houses and fat pensions voted Leave in their droves.

Blaming Brexit on working class voters is nothing but a lie. Very comfortable home countries pensioners with big houses and fat pensions voted Leave in their droves.

I don't think that demographic fits with the well used 'Brexit voters have been hoodwinked by SM trolls and bots' narrative. I doubt you'd find droves of pensioners on Twitter/Facebook etc.

This is a good article on demographics of vote

www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

A few charts useful re income, attitudes and age

@BambinaJAS

There is your (and leavers) mistake.

You can't "move on" from Brexit.

The effects will be with us for the next 30 years.

Say hello to massive wage devaluation and falling living standards.

I would be very concerned if I was a leaver and was not very wealthy.

Take a look at what happened to New Zealand in the 1970s when they lost access to their primary market (UK).

Thats exactly what is going to happen to the UK now.

You voted for exactly this. Enjoy!

And a global pandemic has had absolutely no influence whastsoever?

It is only the UK/GB that is suffering an economic downturn, no other country at all?

No other country with fuel issues?

No?

Blame Brexit where such blame is due. But trying to tie in every ill ever, make it purely a UK problem, when the global issues are starkly apparent to everyone just makes your argument weak, ridiculous!

@StormzyinaTCup

Blaming Brexit on working class voters is nothing but a lie. Very comfortable home countries pensioners with big houses and fat pensions voted Leave in their droves.

I don't think that demographic fits with the well used 'Brexit voters have been hoodwinked by SM trolls and bots' narrative. I doubt you'd find droves of pensioners on Twitter/Facebook etc.

I think the bigger issue is assuming anyone who voted for it has no brainpower. Yes a lot of working class people did vote for it, but people are perhaps uncomfortable delving into why, and its not simply because omg immigrants.

@Kendodd

If anything, remain voters are the ones who were happy with unlimited low skilled immigration which pushed down wages (mostly affecting the working class that they hate so much), to service their cheap takeaway coffees and push up their house prices/filled their buy-to-lets. I doubt that middle class remain voters care about low wages and competition as long as they get their cheap ferry ride to France.

Blaming Brexit on working class voters is nothing but a lie. Very comfortable home countries pensioners with big houses and fat pensions voted Leave in their droves.

I don’t think anyone should be blamed for how they choose to vote in a referendum but key trends have been recognised, including around income etc

JRF covers it well.

@Polyanthus2

It's inevitable I fear - cheap labour moving into UK jobs. I read the front pages of foreign papers (in english) the same thing all over. I think it was a Brazilian paper that had a ranting headline about their IT graduates being poached abroad. People move to the best paying place or whatever - Uk residents have always moved abroad - the Middle East/ USA etc Indians/Phillipinos are moving here.

Brexit opened the floodgates for non-EU migration.

While EU migration nosedived after 2016, non-EU migration has materially increased since 2016.

UK is now replacing semi-skilled and non-skilled EU migrants with semi-skilled and non-skilled non-EU migrants.

This was explained many times to the pro-Brexit folks, who seriously thought Brits would take these jobs.

Note: the lack of undestanding of how the UK operates in geo and socio-economic terms from the UK natives was just amazing to me.

Brexit was always about accelerating a race to the bottom in terms of UK labour protections and wages by replacing EU labour with non-EU labour (lower wages and benefits).

I voted Remain , but people's working conditions have been taking a dive for years .

But this is a different scenario than EU migrants and non-EU migrants - because we have strict immigration laws which wouldn't allow non-EU migrants to take jobs .... . . . .. . . except there is something to do with the merchant marine where they can live wherever because of where the ships are registered. (according to DH when I pointed out that the phillipino or indian staff won't be allowed to move to the UK)

BambinaJAS

There is your (and leavers) mistake.

You can't "move on" from Brexit.

The effects will be with us for the next 30 years.

Say hello to massive wage devaluation and falling living standards.

I would be very concerned if I was a leaver and was not very wealthy.

Do your forecasts only affect leavers who are not wealthy? Remainers are exempt from wage deflation and falling living standards then?

@Newrumpus

BambinaJAS

There is your (and leavers) mistake.

You can't "move on" from Brexit.

The effects will be with us for the next 30 years.

Say hello to massive wage devaluation and falling living standards.

I would be very concerned if I was a leaver and was not very wealthy.

Do your forecasts only affect leavers who are not wealthy? Remainers are exempt from wage deflation and falling living standards then?

The vast majority who voted remain were objective, rational people.

Making ourselves poorer by voting for Brexit was never a choice.

The difference between a person who voted remain and one that voted leave was based on educational attainment.

The pro-Brexit crowd legitimately thought their lives would improve.

Remainers 100% knew this was never, ever going to be the case.

So now we all suffer shrinking living standards.

The difference now is that remainers saw this coming, and are better prepared.

There will be no help whatsoever coming for the leaver crowd.

Sunak has just made that very, every clear.

And that is WHY voting Brexit was a horrible idea. It left the folks who thought their lives would improve horribly exposed from an economic and political standpoint. The Tories are exploiting this for their own ideological ends.

The vast majority who voted remain were objective, rational people

Brilliant.

I'm quite glad we are out of the EU - there is going to be serious drop in living standards in Germany (and anywhere else that arranged a cheap deal for their gas from Russia) - good luck to them, we've got windfarms and oil in the north sea.

Putin wanted Brexit, he helped fund it and made the difference in the Leave win, so anyone who now still supports Brexit is supporting a Putin policy aim... which was to divide Europe, as he sought to divide NATO by helping Trump get to the Whitehouse.

The UK is no longer in the decision making on European defence policy, an incredibly sad situation given our history and military power..... On NATO, thankfully Trump lost, we'd be in an entirely different world had he got a 2nd term.

Think about that the next time you see pictures of Mariupol or whats the plight of 3.5m refugees fleeing Ukraine.

@Polyanthus2

I'm quite glad we are out of the EU - there is going to be serious drop in living standards in Germany (and anywhere else that arranged a cheap deal for their gas from Russia) - good luck to them, we've got windfarms and oil in the north sea.

Russia wont be sanctioned forever & the US (plus others) will make up the shortfall. Plus NS oil is a global commodity, we don't get a direct benefit, electricity (however generated) is sold on the euro energy market.

EU is introducing price controls and most countries have far lower energy price rises compared to UK, after tax changes on energy giants, Sunak taxes the low paid instead.

People seem to forget that Russia exports far more than just oil and gas, its one of the worlds top exporters of metals used in EV batteries too.

Putin wanted Brexit, he helped fund it and made the difference in the Leave win, so anyone who now still supports Brexit is supporting a Putin policy aim... which was to divide Europe, as he sought to divide NATO by helping Trump get to the Whitehouse.

Completely agree.
Did you see that little smirk on Putin's face a couple of years ago when asked if he supported Brexit. He would love to pick apart the EU and NATO, Brexit was a massive win for him.

@Polyanthus2

I'm quite glad we are out of the EU - there is going to be serious drop in living standards in Germany (and anywhere else that arranged a cheap deal for their gas from Russia) - good luck to them, we've got windfarms and oil in the north sea.

Your "views" are precisely why leavers are largely of below average education

Seriously. This is simplistic face-palm analysis.

Keep trying to deflect. Its going to interesting to watch you bleat for help when the ecomomic shockwave really hits (Winter 2022) and your own Govt tells you...sorry, but you're on your own.

You won't wind me up with your rude comment

It's ridiculous to think that the only country in a mess over the next few years is the UK????
Already Egypt (population 105 million) has a shortage of grain this year, which is obviously going to get seriously worse. And other north African countries are already unstable due low employment rates.

We at least have some flexibility over what we do, eg use natural manure instead of that made from imported Russian Gas which is what Europe uses, not very practical but possible in our small country. We don't have to kowtow to EU regulation now.

Russia wont be sanctioned forever & the US (plus others) will make up the shortfall.
Plus NS oil is a global commodity, we don't get a direct benefit, electricity (however generated) is sold on the euro energy market.

EU is introducing price controls and most countries have far lower energy price rises compared to UK, after tax changes on energy giants, Sunak taxes the low paid instead.

People seem to forget that Russia exports far more than just oil and gas, its one of the worlds top exporters of metals used in EV batteries too.

We have high energy prices because the public pay for the investment in wind farms. All those Danish and Chinese wind turbine manufacturers and the landowners/farmers in Scotland are raking it in due to the punters paying through the nose for it.
Did you think the Danes and Chinese were donating them?

The US couldn't make up the shortfall in liquiefied gas - it's too much.

@Polyanthus2

You won't wind me up with your rude comment

It's ridiculous to think that the only country in a mess over the next few years is the UK????
Already Egypt (population 105 million) has a shortage of grain this year, which is obviously going to get seriously worse. And other north African countries are already unstable due low employment rates.

We at least have some flexibility over what we do, eg use natural manure instead of that made from imported Russian Gas which is what Europe uses, not very practical but possible in our small country. We don't have to kowtow to EU regulation now.

Your lack of education and knowledge is profound.

The UK is totally exposed to global prices and we have a massive amount of homes with poor energy efficiency.

People exactly like you are going to get a lot poorer. There is nowhere for you to hide and ride this out.

So its time to stop making excuses and deflections.

This situation in the UK is also a direct consequence of your vote. Leavers are great at claiming they did the right thing with their vote, but they conveniently slink away when they are asked to accept the "accountability" part of their vote.

BambinaJAS In my household of three postgrads, two of us voted Leave. We did that whilst we lived (and dh worked) in Brussels. His stint seconded to the EU made him realise what an awful organisation it is; how corrupt it is; and how self serving it is.

People voted remain because in many cases, they enjoyed the so called status quo. However, what they failed to realise is that with the EU, there is no status quo. It is not a benign organisation, you only have to look at the treatment of Greece, Italy and Cyprus for that, and a generation of people with no future. The same holds true to an extent in parts of France. Some voted Leave precisely because they didn't like what they saw and heard, and because the EU is a gravy train for many, which we all fund. I fail to see how a Eurocrat or fonctionnaire in Brussels can possibly make a better decision about what affects a locality, than the local people themselves. I do not want to fund that extra (and expensive) level of bureaucracy.

Trump was right about certain NATO Allies not paying their dues, especially Germany and Belgium. This is a call that has been made by various U.S. Presidents, including Obama at the Caerleon Summit. Trump was just less diplomatic in how he phrased it; but it did work, eventually.

As for the Brits not being involved in European defence, we are, via NATO. There is no need for the EU to have Armed Forces. The EUMS directs the EU Military effort (such as it is), and that is run on NATO lines anyway. Any attempt at an EU Military will dilute NATO, as there won't be any more Forces, just a third hat for them to wear, along with their national and NATO ones.

The EU is part of the problem, it is not the solution. The answer is not, and never will be, more Europe.

Don't worry @BambinaJAS - I'll never be poor in my lifetime. And the savings /pensions we have are no thanks to any connections with the EU. There are other places in the world!

@thegcatsmother

BambinaJAS In my household of three postgrads, two of us voted Leave. We did that whilst we lived (and dh worked) in Brussels. His stint seconded to the EU made him realise what an awful organisation it is; how corrupt it is; and how self serving it is.

People voted remain because in many cases, they enjoyed the so called status quo. However, what they failed to realise is that with the EU, there is no status quo. It is not a benign organisation, you only have to look at the treatment of Greece, Italy and Cyprus for that, and a generation of people with no future. The same holds true to an extent in parts of France. Some voted Leave precisely because they didn't like what they saw and heard, and because the EU is a gravy train for many, which we all fund. I fail to see how a Eurocrat or fonctionnaire in Brussels can possibly make a better decision about what affects a locality, than the local people themselves. I do not want to fund that extra (and expensive) level of bureaucracy.

Trump was right about certain NATO Allies not paying their dues, especially Germany and Belgium. This is a call that has been made by various U.S. Presidents, including Obama at the Caerleon Summit. Trump was just less diplomatic in how he phrased it; but it did work, eventually.

As for the Brits not being involved in European defence, we are, via NATO. There is no need for the EU to have Armed Forces. The EUMS directs the EU Military effort (such as it is), and that is run on NATO lines anyway. Any attempt at an EU Military will dilute NATO, as there won't be any more Forces, just a third hat for them to wear, along with their national and NATO ones.

The EU is part of the problem, it is not the solution. The answer is not, and never will be, more Europe.

Claiming the EU is "corrupt" and then turning around and voting for Boris.

Amazing. You have zero credibility now.

I have more advanced degrees than your entire household put together (four), with a professional designation to boot and the level of self-harm caused by Brexit is so immense the UK will never recover.

That is the reality.

And as a person who grew in Canada, US, Norway, Spain, and the UK I have a far superior understanding of this than you do (or ever will).

The only future now for the UK is a poorer one.

Your justifications and excuses will not change that.