I wonder how Leave voters feel about P&O Ferries.

[lecreusetpeppermill]

I know many people voted one way or the other for different reasons, but those who were concerned about immigration 'swallowing jobs' or driving wages down.......how do they feel about this recent story?

Do they not feel lied to?

I'd be interested to hear what Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Elizabeth Truss, think about it. Surely this is exactly the Britannia Unchained vision of the future they had of stripping away workers right.

@Kendodd

I'd be interested to hear what Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Elizabeth Truss, think about it. Surely this is exactly the Britannia Unchained vision of the future they had of stripping away workers right.

No doubt - I was struck by how the government's "outrage" doesn't really match their actions.

@thegcatsmother

Should Trump or another similar to him get to be POTUS in 2024, the NATO art 5 commitment could be worthless, further NATO spending in Europe has zero to do with Trump and everything to do with Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Anyway, you and your family backed a Putin aim, which is to destroy the EU, starting with Brexit... fortunately, other euro countries had more sense and less self serving politicians and better educated electorates, so (no thanks to Brexitiers) he failed and the EU is stronger than ever.

Unlike our relationship with the Commonwealth or with India... more post brexit promises gone up in smoke as they show us their true colours.

@Kendodd
That lying bastard Grant Shapps (who I wouldn't trust to sit the right way round on a lavatory) seems to have been listening - this is weird -

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60895833

[quote daimbarsatemydogsbone]@Kendodd
That lying bastard Grant Shapps (who I wouldn't trust to sit the right way round on a lavatory) seems to have been listening - this is weird -

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60895833[/quote]
Not really, most of the original workers would have been on far more than the MW, some would have taken early retirement or found new work by the time any new legislation is enacted.

But the most important thing here is that laws are rarely if ever retrospective.

All smoke n mirrors to be seen to be doing something

I agree it is smoke and mirrors...retrospective legislation is generally regarded as problematic/inconsistent with the rule of law...and it is difficult to see how it would operate in practice.
If only the govt had had time in the 12 years they have been in charge to address what they now appear to consider a crucial issue!

This has been happening for decades, usually British workers replaced by cheap Eastern European labour, much the same as having to reapply for your own job in the U.K. which seems to be a major thing when companies are “reorganising “, so very sorry not a Brexit related thing, no matter how much you may want it to be,

Not really, most of the original workers would have been on far more than the MW, some would have taken early retirement or found new work by the time any new legislation is enacted.

But the most important thing here is that laws are rarely if ever retrospective.

@Alexandra2001 it doesn't matter. The government have realised that some shipping companies are using a loophole in the law to exploit cheap labour. They are now closing that loophole so that the companies will have to pay their staff the minimum wage. It won't reverse the current situation, no, but it'll stop exploitation going forward.

@Kendodd

I'd be interested to hear what Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Elizabeth Truss, think about it. Surely this is exactly the Britannia Unchained vision of the future they had of stripping away workers right.

It seems a very New Labour vision to me, actually. Importing low-paid workers from abroad so that the middle classes can have cheap staff while British workers become dependant upon the state to put food upon the table, therefore voting Labour in order to keep their benefits.

@DdraigGoch Do you know who is in power? Who is in charge that allowed P&O to do as they please? Despite the outrage over what British Gas did recently.

Increasing the requirements on MW for ship owners, will not stop any other company from doing similar to P&O, only better employment protection and fines for those that break the law will do that, after all P&O couldn't sack its Dutch or French workforce.

You do realise that immigration from non EU countries has sky rocketed since Brexit? and that despite India siding with the Russians, indeed sanction breaking too, we still seek a FTA and even more "student" visas for India to exploit.

after all P&O couldn't sack its Dutch or French workforce.

I think that's more to do with the fact that they know the French would have blockaded Calais and set fire to everything for weeks than any actual laws.

Meanwhile over here, Thatcher smashed the unions and it's been a race to the bottom ever since. We'd have better conditions if there weren't so many scabs.

It seems the legislation that enabled this predates BREXIT by a very long way, and, ironically was passed by the Blair government in 2003…

www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/jun/14/uk.tradeunions

[quote Tryingtokeepgoing]It seems the legislation that enabled this predates BREXIT by a very long way, and, ironically was passed by the Blair government in 2003…

www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/jun/14/uk.tradeunions[/quote]
Nothing Ironic about that - Thatcher-lover passes Thatcherite law.

Ironic because Prescot is an ex P&O steward :)

@Tryingtokeepgoing

Ironic because Prescot is an ex P&O steward :)

Fair point, well made.

[quote Tryingtokeepgoing]It seems the legislation that enabled this predates BREXIT by a very long way, and, ironically was passed by the Blair government in 2003…

www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/jun/14/uk.tradeunions[/quote]
That legislation concerns British flagged vessels.
Pretty unclear how Grant Shapps is going to pass legislation that binds/applies to foreign nationals on an overseas flagged vessel registered to foreign owners.

A little history lesson. The original P&O ferry company for who John Prescott worked (mentioned up thread) were bought along with the P&O brand name by EurpeanFerries/Townsend-Thoreson. The P&O brand name disappeared. After the sinking of a Townsend-Thoreson ferry in Belgium, with loss of life, Townsend-Thoreson rebranded themselves with the P&O name.

@TebayOrNotTebay - I don’t pretend to be an expert here, ferries are not my background, but l would have thought it no different from banning a foreign owned airline from UK air space and airports. The CAA regularly publish such a list.

Pretty unclear how Grant Shapps is going to pass legislation that binds/applies to foreign nationals on an overseas flagged vessel registered to foreign owners.

Something along the lines of "vessels which are in British waters for a sum total of more than 183 calendar days (or part thereof) per year are required to comply with British standards on H&S, workers' rights etc."

I'm no lawyer but I reckon that this would be a good start.

[quote Tryingtokeepgoing]It seems the legislation that enabled this predates BREXIT by a very long way, and, ironically was passed by the Blair government in 2003…

www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/jun/14/uk.tradeunions[/quote]
Of course had any Govt since thought it was a bad idea they could have changed the law.... the Cons have had 12 years to do this....

Its not as if no one knew ship owners were paying peanuts, its a practice that long pre dates Blair.

Pretty unclear how Grant Shapps is going to pass legislation that binds/applies to foreign nationals on an overseas flagged vessel registered to foreign owners

So what if he can? wont help the ex P&O workers because all P&O has to do is re instate, 45 day consultation and get rid regardless OR just fold the business.

There is an argument for the ferries of an Island nation like ours with such vital trading links to mainland Europe, should be nationalised.

There is an argument for the ferries of an Island nation like ours with such vital trading links to mainland Europe, should be nationalised.

As indeed they were between 1948 and 1984.

If the Gov insists on them keeping to our minimum wage we can assume fewer ferries and much higher prices.

I wonder how the new rules will affect the employees of P&O cruises and other British cruise lines? I'm not sure they'd survive higher costs.

@Polyanthus2

If the Gov insists on them keeping to our minimum wage we can assume fewer ferries and much higher prices.

It would put them on a level playing field with eurotunnel though, which seems reasonable to me :)