I wonder how Leave voters feel about P&O Ferries.

[lecreusetpeppermill]

I know many people voted one way or the other for different reasons, but those who were concerned about immigration 'swallowing jobs' or driving wages down.......how do they feel about this recent story?

Do they not feel lied to?

Same way as Remain voters I should think OP, ie disgusted.

Why?

I thought workers rights in the Uk have generally been better than the minimum standard set by the EU, so being in or out is a bit irrelevant.

@Justkeeppedaling

Pre-Brexit, hauliers used the UK as a landbridge between Ireland and continental Europe. That has all stopped now and of course that has impacted on demand for the UK routes.

It doesn't seem to have affected the number of EU/European registered lorries trucking up and down the M4 on a daily basis.

This article explains it pretty well.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/27/freight-traffic-between-britain-and-dublin-has-dropped-by-a-fifth-since-brexit

I'm not suggesting traffic has stopped, but it has taken a significant hit.

@Leol

I thought workers rights in the Uk have generally been better than the minimum standard set by the EU, so being in or out is a bit irrelevant.

Correct.

Op - you sound rather confused. You dont happen to be a Labour Remain voter do you who has got themselves very mixed up over what has happened.

@DirectionToPerfection

I'm not suggesting traffic has stopped

That has all stopped now

Eh?

@DirectionToPerfection

Sure, the new direct routes between Ireland and France, that were set up as a direct result of Brexit, have nothing to do with it.

Pre-Brexit, hauliers used the UK as a landbridge between Ireland and continental Europe. That has all stopped now and of course that has impacted on demand for the UK routes.

But surely its better that lorries don't use us as a land bridge? They filled up with petrol before coming here so the uk made no money out of that, they paid no road tax and they caused pollution. Surely having one fifth 20% fewer lorries on the road is a good thing?

Leave voters may feel lied to, but they are unlikely to admit it. Just as they are unlikely to admit they never expected anything other than a Remain win, voted Leave as what they expected to be just a free protest.

However interesting that other EU workers kept their jobs (protected) as theirs (thanks to EU law) can't be loopholed by the unemployment law saying they can be made redundant and the job re-hashed and given to workers for a fraction of the pay.

@Nightlystroll

Maybe, but that's a whole other debate.

It's clear that Brexit has impacted demand for UK ferry routes and P&O have been negatively affected by that. It may not be the only reason for their troubles, but it certainly is a factor.

@futuremoneyinbank

However interesting that other EU workers kept their jobs (protected) as theirs (thanks to EU law) can't be loopholed by the unemployment law saying they can be made redundant and the job re-hashed and given to workers for a fraction of the pay.

What 'EU law' says this?

As someone mentioned above, Irish Ferries did something very similar back in 2005.

It could have happened if we remained.

People voted to leave for lots of reasons not just to control numbers coming in to the country.

Goady much?

Erm, Irish workers that live and work our of Ireland were also effected:

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/union-says-60-irish-employees-among-the-800-crew-sacked-by-p-o-ferries-1.4831386P

It is nothing to do with Brexit.

Where do you get your news from?

@futuremoneyinbank

However interesting that other EU workers kept their jobs (protected) as theirs (thanks to EU law) can't be loopholed by the unemployment law saying they can be made redundant and the job re-hashed and given to workers for a fraction of the pay.

ICYMI

m.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-ferries-will-abandon-routes-unless-staff-go-quietly-25967299.html

For the record, French seafarers working for P&O have not been sacked. Where as UK law is somewhat blurred (this will be one for the courts), French law is clearer. They are protected by “Code du Travail”. Redundancies have to take account of seniority and burden.

How French seafarers will work alongside their new workmates will remain to be seen.

But the ships are EU registered and it does somewhat explode the myth that the EU ruled over the UK; that was not so.

@IcedPurple the fire and rehire law we have in UK (Tories have just not turned up to the Labour movement to abolish it). Yes, Irish have it too, but it can't happen in EU employment law.

@lecreusetpeppermill

Ah, I had a simplistic view of this, not too well up, sorry.

I think i was just curious about the double standard - people wishing to reduce immigration but accepting it if we can exploit them.

I see this is more complex.

You are indeed very confused. it is not complex at all. Let me try and break it down very simply:

People = Joe Public, the workers, wanting to reduce immigration so more jobs/better pay so they can eat/pay bills/roof over their head etc
Exploiters = business owners or companies with stakeholders using the excuse of too many workers and not enogh jobs means poor working conditions/low pay etc

Its not double standards when it isn't the same group of people. It is also nothing to do with brexit as its been a labour/tory thing for decades. Try learning history. HTH

The government recently snuck through a change in employment legislation for those employed on ships.

They are now governed by the employment legislation of the country to which the individual ships are registered. Ships are registered in countries throughout the world. In the case of P & O the ships were not registered in the U.K. so U.K. employment legislation does not apply. P & O have apparently filled the necessary paperwork regarding the redundancies with the different countries .

😂 wth are you even talking about OP, clueless.

Oh, o.k. so you know all there is to know everything there is to know about how Brexit works....

Why not be kind and explain to all those who had not a clue what they were voting for.

We are not all up on geopolitics.

As a single, working mum, taking care of elderly parents, and now a war going on, excuse me for being ignorant about some stuff happening in the world.

The government recently snuck through a change in employment legislation for those employed on ships.
They are now governed by the employment legislation of the country to which the individual ships are registered. Ships are registered in countries throughout the world. In the case of P & O the ships were not registered in the U.K. so U.K. employment legislation does not apply. P & O have apparently filled the necessary paperwork regarding the redundancies with the different countries .

Yes, they 'snuck' in an EU directive in 2018...

The P & O ships relating to the redundancies were registered in Cyprus and the Bahamas.

sadly no takers here 😀

Possibly because the question makes no sense

Why not be kind and explain to all those who had not a clue what they were voting for.

Ironic saying this because this could have happened even if the vote went to remain, so it looks like you are not aware of what you was voting for either...

French employment law was different to U.K. employment law before Brexit. It’s much more difficult to make somebody redundant in France.

[quote futuremoneyinbank]@IcedPurple the fire and rehire law we have in UK (Tories have just not turned up to the Labour movement to abolish it). Yes, Irish have it too, but it can't happen in EU employment law.[/quote]
I don't understand.

If 'fire and rehire' happened in Ireland, which is an EU member, how can it not happen in 'EU employment law'? Isn't employment law, outside of a few basic regulations, at the discretion of individual member states, not the EU?