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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand why people doubt male bisexuality?

216 replies

zenithfreedom · 04/06/2021 15:30

Bisexuality is ironically stigmatized not just amongst some straight people but in LGBT circle. It's common for people to believe "bi woman are really just straight and bi men are just gay".

But when it comes to males and being attracted to both genders, many people doubt it. I recently thought about this as my workmate has a boyfriend who she was discussing is bi and she was a bit wary of that but accepted it. Most other girls said that he's deluding himself and it's only a matter of time before he starts shagging other guys/looking for them on Grindr.

I think that the reason why there are less bisexual men anecdotally and by statistics isn't because it's less common but rather the stigma.
In actual fact, I would have thought that bisexuality would be more common in males, the reason being is that men have a higher sex drive and are overrepresented in paraphilias and fetishes compared to women. So wouldn't men be more likely to have sex with their gender than women.

OP posts:
Morgoth · 05/06/2021 13:35

This thread on the relationships board from a year ago is an interesting read. OP asked how she could politely turn down a man she was into once he confessed he was bisexual. It spiralled into a big discussion. Hundreds of women on the thread giving reasons why didn’t want to be in a relationship or have sex with a man who was a bisexual.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3854778-OLD-help-please-Guy-told-me-he-is-bi-how-to-politely-say-I-dont-wish-to-continue

StarlightLady · 05/06/2021 14:01

May l sidetrack slightly?

If l’m going on a date with a man, am l supposed to advise them in advance that l’ve had intimate and passionate moments twixt the sheets with other women?

Assuming your private life is private, how would anyone know, especially in the early stages, that a person, regardless of gender is bi?

BiBabbles · 05/06/2021 14:55

That's an interesting question StarlightLady, I know in other threads there have been a mix of opinions on things we're meant to be upfront about.

@trancepants I was one who commented on being fetishized as a bisexual woman by straight men.

I think there is a difference in finding something attractive and fetishizing it. The latter tends to involve people who push for intimate details purely for their own arousal, who treat you like their ideal of a bisexual rather than an individual and get put out when we don't meet those expectations (because as a fetish, we're an object to them rather than a person), and in more extreme versions pushing for threesomes or trying to recreate particular acts with the 'you did this with your ex, why not with me?' sort of thing.

It's kinda like finding something interesting about a person vs wanting someone with a particular experience to entertain based on that. People who find my past with both sexes interesting or attractive can be lovely, those who think it means they can push past decent boundaries for their own amusement or pleasure are the type who tend to escalate into something risky. Likely for many social reasons, I've found straight guys tend to be riskier in that regard.

@EpitomeofAnOldBattle I mean if you have a strong political/emotional motivation to feel that gender is meaningless you can choose sex to define these terms.

My issue with using gender is that we've decades of research across thousands of species showing the normality of homosexual and bisexual behaviours based on observations involving biological sex.

Making sexuality (rather than sexual preferences) about gender or gender presentation involves applying current certain ideas of gender universal to not only all humans but to all sexually reproducing animals sexuality and/or basically calling into question all that research based on current ideas of gender that are very much not universal since, while we can observe some gendered behaviour in some social animals, we can not really observe gender as that certain framework current defines it.

I think on a cultural level there has been a push for sexuality to mean every part of our personalities or interests possibly related to sex, which means many people end up talking at cross purposes when discussing sexuality, but I think there are areas where it's important to separate sexuality as in the sex(es) one can be attracted to and the rest of the sexual preferences, how we experience and process emotions around sexuality, and so on. Maybe we need better language around that as right now it can all end up getting mushed up together.

LateAtTate · 05/06/2021 15:11

@wed8pril @Lockheart
I think she meant that the though of HER boinking someone who had boinked dick was disgusting, which was perfectly valid. As in that was the image that would be in her mind? It would be homophobic if she said that they shouldnt do it because she found them disgusting.
Just like the thought of someone else boinking your partner would disgust you, but not someone who was polyamorous...

It's really very difficult to discus things like these on forums... even physical attraction there's a fine line between racism and preference.. instead of 'boak' perhaps a scientific term like 'sexual turn off' would have been better?

trancepants · 05/06/2021 15:40

Thanks for answering @BiBabbles. I actually feel a bit like I may be having a later in life exploration of my own sexuality because scenarios like you describe are actually leaving me feel quite repulsed by men and increasingly unwilling to ever allow myself to be vulnerable around men. Especially emotionally vulnerable. I know there are probably many lovely men out there but honestly, so many have such an air of expectant entitlement that I find genuinely scary.

IMNOTSHOUTING · 05/06/2021 15:45

@StarlightLady I don't think anyone has any right to know about your sexual past unless you choose to disclose it. That said If I was in a very intimate LTR I would probably expect something significant like that to have come up and might feel slightly hurt if it was deliberately concealed.

CorianderBee · 05/06/2021 16:39

They doubt female bisexuality too. I'm with a man in a LTR and am told I only say it for 'attention'. My pal is with a woman and is told she's just a lesbian in denial.

People can't fathom being attracted equally to both sexes because they're not.

There's also more homophobia and toxic masc at play for bi males. They're not seen as 'manly'.

No erasures a real problem.

CorianderBee · 05/06/2021 16:39

Bi erasure*

CorianderBee · 05/06/2021 16:40

Also men don't have a higher sex drive. That's a stereotype. Desire works differently for men and women but many have high and low sex drives across both sexes.

LaurieFairyCake · 05/06/2021 16:48

In my experience as a psychosexual therapist there are far fewer bi sexual men than women.

Homophobia has always run strongly through our society so it's very hard for a young man to be fully gay. Bisexuality is much more acceptable among young straight males than being fully gay.

EpitomeofAnOldBattle · 05/06/2021 20:33

@BiBabbles
Good points, well made. Thanks for the post.

zenithfreedom · 05/06/2021 21:06

@LaurieFairyCake

In my experience as a psychosexual therapist there are far fewer bi sexual men than women.

Homophobia has always run strongly through our society so it's very hard for a young man to be fully gay. Bisexuality is much more acceptable among young straight males than being fully gay.

When you say that there are fewer bi-men, is this that fewer men who are out or fewer men statistically?
OP posts:
DamianosGuyliner · 05/06/2021 23:19

DP is bisexual. We were friends for a while before getting together, so I’ve seen him when single and dating. He says he found some men would say he was in denial and was gay, and women too thought he was gay and they were ‘beards’. He’s been dumped a few times by women when he told them but doesn’t think it’s fair not to tell. It has made him very unhappy when he was in love with the person so if his experience is representative I can see why men don’t admit/explore their desires.

My problem - as I knew about his sexuality from the get go - was more my insecurity about the fact that basically everyone in the planet was a potential partner to him and he’s a very handsome man, not that he’d had sex with men in the past. I’ve had sex with men in the past. It’s not a big deal to me, but everyone’s different.

He is conflicted, comes from religious conservative background, parents don’t know, so he’s not comfortable with his sexuality even in his forties. I also made the error of hesitating as I presumed he’d want to have a man/men on the go whilst with me - he’s corrected me that for him if he doesn’t want me to sleep with anyone else, and I don’t want him to sleep with anyone else, then that’s the deal.

He’s tended to have relationships with women, flings or FWB with men. He’s no idea if that’s his actual preference or societal expectations.

I’m the first one to know this about him before getting involved. He’s amazed I accept him as he is. I think it is still very hard for anyone to be outside the heteronormative ideal, but being told there’s no such thing or they’re lying to themselves is even harder.

LemonSherbetFancies · 05/06/2021 23:21

I know a bisexuality man. He has cheated twice on previous female partners. Now seems to have one of the strongest relationships I know with yet another woman.

Lgz11 · 06/06/2021 00:24

@DamianosGuyliner

DP is bisexual. We were friends for a while before getting together, so I’ve seen him when single and dating. He says he found some men would say he was in denial and was gay, and women too thought he was gay and they were ‘beards’. He’s been dumped a few times by women when he told them but doesn’t think it’s fair not to tell. It has made him very unhappy when he was in love with the person so if his experience is representative I can see why men don’t admit/explore their desires.

My problem - as I knew about his sexuality from the get go - was more my insecurity about the fact that basically everyone in the planet was a potential partner to him and he’s a very handsome man, not that he’d had sex with men in the past. I’ve had sex with men in the past. It’s not a big deal to me, but everyone’s different.

He is conflicted, comes from religious conservative background, parents don’t know, so he’s not comfortable with his sexuality even in his forties. I also made the error of hesitating as I presumed he’d want to have a man/men on the go whilst with me - he’s corrected me that for him if he doesn’t want me to sleep with anyone else, and I don’t want him to sleep with anyone else, then that’s the deal.

He’s tended to have relationships with women, flings or FWB with men. He’s no idea if that’s his actual preference or societal expectations.

I’m the first one to know this about him before getting involved. He’s amazed I accept him as he is. I think it is still very hard for anyone to be outside the heteronormative ideal, but being told there’s no such thing or they’re lying to themselves is even harder.

That sounds so similar to me and my DH
wed8pril · 07/06/2021 14:08

@LemonSherbetFancies

I know a bisexuality man. He has cheated twice on previous female partners. Now seems to have one of the strongest relationships I know with yet another woman.
Knowing one bisexual person who cheated means absolutely nothing.
LemonSherbetFancies · 07/06/2021 21:49

I didn't say it did.
Just pointing out that he seems to have an amazing relationship now despite cheating several times on previous wife's and also being bisexual.

wed8pril · 08/06/2021 07:03

@LemonSherbetFancies

I didn't say it did. Just pointing out that he seems to have an amazing relationship now despite cheating several times on previous wife's and also being bisexual.
Despite being bisexual. Okay then.
LemonSherbetFancies · 08/06/2021 11:47

I do not understand your point PP?
I am not saying all bisexual people cheat. Just adding to the discussion in that I know a bisexual man who has cheated several times and now has the strongest relationship I know with another woman. Make of that what you will.

stackemhigh · 08/06/2021 12:00

@Lockheart

This isn't going to go well. From previous threads, MN posters are as a rule ridiculously bigoted about bisexual people.
Women saying they are wary of entering into relationships with bi men is not bigoted.
wed8pril · 08/06/2021 13:17

@LemonSherbetFancies

I do not understand your point PP? I am not saying all bisexual people cheat. Just adding to the discussion in that I know a bisexual man who has cheated several times and now has the strongest relationship I know with another woman. Make of that what you will.
You're acting as though him being bisexual and him cheating are somewhat related.
LemonSherbetFancies · 08/06/2021 22:13

No. I am just relaying information about the one bisexual man I know.

wed8pril · 09/06/2021 09:52

@LemonSherbetFancies

No. I am just relaying information about the one bisexual man I know.
I don't see why it's relevant then.
AryaStarkWolf · 09/06/2021 13:51

Just to make a point, ‘Bisexual’ and ‘pansexual’ aren’t interchangeable terms.

Bisexual = 2 sexes. Men and women.

Pansexual = anything goes. Attracted to men, women, trans, gender fluid, non binary and all that.

Everyone is either male or female sex though so why the need for the different term?

TedMullins · 09/06/2021 14:40

How are they not bigoted @stackemhigh? If the only reason they wouldn’t date the guy is BECAUSE he’s bisexual that’s the definition of biphobia. So is believing that it’s somehow more risky because he might cheat/be gay/have an STI or whatever else. And before you come back saying ‘you can’t force people to date people they don’t want, that’s coercive blah blah’ yes, I agree. But it’s been said thousands of times that you can have whatever preferences you want, just have enough insight to admit when they stem from prejudice.