You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

Disgusting, the biggest sin of Jews? Surviving.
You dont care about Palestinians. The problem is Hamas and similar organisations.
These leaders of terrorist organisations are enormously rich while civilians live in poverty. Other Arab states where Palestinians are living in camps (for example, without hot water) for generations are the problem. Not Israel with parliamentary representation of Palestinians, health care and state education available to Palestinians (for some reasons Hamas prefer to steal humanitarian help and then be treated in Israel for everything).

People who question right of Israel to exist are purely anti-Semitic. www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitions-charters/working-definition-antisemitism

'If tomorrow France will launch missiles towards UK - do you think UK will not answer? Are you actually serious?'

If the UK had blocaded France for years, treated it's citizens as second class, arrested and tortured them at will, prevented it's people from having food, shelter, education, health care and basic sanitation then perhaps it would be understandable that France finally retaliated.

Israel is not the victim here, despite the Hamas attacks and everyone knows it. Netanyahu isn't the first leader to start a conflict to disguise his own failings. If Israel truly wants long term safety then it will be through agreements like the Abraham Accords but Netanyahu has thrown this under the bus in favour of showing off military might against a weak opponent.

@Lottie2shoes

A point I would like to also point out is that does anyone not think it strange that Benjamin Netanyahu was on his way out by the sounds of it and suddenly he started showing his hand of attacking Palestine and now it seems he will be staying in power much longer. Seems to be this "war" was very political on his part. A means for him to gain support from his national parties to stay in power.

One could similarly say that does anyone not think it strange that the Palestinians were going to hold their first elections in 15 years and this all kicked off after they decided to postpone them and Hamas is pretty pissed off. This could be a means for Hamas to entrench their support. After all, what happened in Sheikh Jarrah and Jerusalem does not impact on Gaza and Hamas as a pp pointed out. So why did Hamas in Gaza suddenly feel the need to release thousands of missiles towards Israel? Israel hadn't done anything in Gaza.

For the love of God, to whoever says that if Israel makes Palestinians situation better then Hamas will back off - clearly has absolutely no idea about the situation. Hamas is not driven by the desire to help Palestinians - they are driven by the desire to get rid of all the Jews at whatever cost. If they really cared about Palestinian people - they wouldn't be using all the humanitarian help from other countries to produce weapons! They would have built the schools, improve healthcare, bla bla bla - do all these things that humanitarian help is meant to be for. Not building weapons and dig tunnels! So if Israel "doesn't fire" ' as some posters suggest - it will be a clear signal for Hamas that they can do whatever they want with no reaction, and next time they will hit even harder! Ffs they are targeting the airport - shall Israel allow them to take down a couple of civilian planes maybe? Just to satisfy some people on this thread?
Everyone is so amazing at coming up with suggestions of what not to do, but no one actually knows what TO do in order to satisfy Palestinians, Hamas, AND prevent the State of Israel / its civilians not to be wiped off the map in the not so distant future!

The only way to get rid of Hamas is to start treating Palestinians as humans, with equal rights to Israelis, and give them an alternative. Not to bomb Gaza and kill hundreds of civilians, politicising the next generation and the next and the next.

There is so much smoke-screening, whataboutery and deflection from the Israeli government sympathisers on this thread that the persecution of Palestinians and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine is being drowned out.

I highly recommend these two critically acclaimed books which sets out extremely clearly how the Palestinians have been disadvantaged at every turn.

The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonial Conquest and Resistance www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1781259348/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_PR5B663T35H8JVVV268Q?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

And also

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1851685553/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_BH433WM3FYR8VW7HB98D?tag=mumsnetforu03-21 which is written by an Israeli Jew.

The Israeli government should be tried for war crimes in my opinion. Their complete disregard for Palestinian lives is a travesty.

@Acidburn
Yes I do comprehend that. Nowhere have I not said they have not. I equally judge them for targeting poor civilians. Full stop. I have not come out with the " but"rhetoric displayed time and again on here.
Yes I am serious.
While we are on different "sides", (although I would like to think we are on the same side regarding humanity) I have liked reading some of your posts as it shows me how the other side feels.
Having said that, I think at times you have come on alot more strongly and there are certainly alot of things I do not agree with. It's an agree to disagree situation.
As for the Hamas attacking situation, they have been attacking each other as long as I remember. Either side throwing out the " in retaliation to...".
I could easily say to you. If Israeli threw three first punch, does Palestine not have the right to defend itself?
Which is more in line with what I believe but have not said as there are always 2 sides to every story and unless I was physically there for the very first attack, I am not at liberty to say.

I do not follow blindly with the crowd, if I have not seen it with my own 2 eyes, I am not going to jump on either side.
I will however condemn the clear wrongs if and when I see it on either side

Hamas and Iran are the biggest oppressors of the Palestinians.

Do you think Israel would not embrace a peaceful two state solution, especially if supported by the Arab World?

How can Israel give ‘equal rights’ to Palestinians when they get jihadists with suicide belts targeting their children?

Hamas need to either grow up and become a political and not jihadist organisation, or be destroyed, in everyone’s interests, not least the aspirational Palestinians who, as a poster said above, just want to get a good education and a better life for their children (a lot like the Jewish diaspora, in fact).

Ok I seriously need to proof read my writing but you get my gist

@JustFedUpOfThis

There is so much smoke-screening, whataboutery and deflection from the Israeli government sympathisers on this thread that the persecution of Palestinians and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine is being drowned out.

I highly recommend these two critically acclaimed books which sets out extremely clearly how the Palestinians have been disadvantaged at every turn.

The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonial Conquest and Resistance ]]

And also

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine ]] which is written by an Israeli Jew.

The Israeli government should be tried for war crimes in my opinion. Their complete disregard for Palestinian lives is a travesty.

And I recommend this critically acclaimed book "One Palestine, Complete" www.amazon.com/One-Palestine-Complete-British-Mandate-ebook/dp/B00CK54CJ8?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

For a more balanced approach.

@TheReluctantPhoenix
Exactly what you just said!! How can you help the civilians when the " Jihadists are doing so and so".
So you have basically said the Palestines do not deserve to have basic human rights because some jihadists are doing certain things. It are you saying the whole of Palestine are jihadists.
Which is it you believe?

I will however condemn the clear wrongs if and when I see it on either side

Thanks lottie. You make perfect sense.

It’s like a woman running from an abusive relationship with a violent man, and the shelters tell her:

“Wait, we can’t support you we need to take a back seat. Because he says you swore at him first”

For gods sake. Since when is abuse allowed under any circumstances.

Anyone justifying abuse has an agenda and they will use smokescreens to protect it

@Lottie2shoes no one here says that all Palestinians are jihadists! But it takes 1 jihadist with an explosive belt to kill lots of people! You only need 1! So how can Israel allow that?

@AnnieLofriar

That books look interesting and I may read it however it only covers up until 1948 so it cannot be “more balanced” that books which cover beyond 1948 which mine do.

Amd if you go to my first post you will see I understand very clearly the build up to the 1948 creation is Israel and how the British went back on their promises to the Arabs under the McMahon letters and instead favoured the promise to the Zionists (Balfour agreement) to create a Jewish homeland.

The British government then proceeded to operate the mandate, whose first High commissioner was a British Jew - Herbert Samuel, such that it overwhelmingly favoured the Jewish people arriving and not the indigenous Palestinians. I’m attaching same chart to should how Palestine was overwhelmingly Palestinian before the mandate, and how much the Jewish population grew from late 19 century to 1948.

The British government - as is so often the case - is hugely to blame for the origination of this catastrophe. I’m utterly ashamed of what the British did to so many parts of the world.

Acidburn

I, as a granddaughter or a Palestinian man, denied his home, and a father, growing up in sabra and having to flee for his life as a child.. and all the massive implication that this had on my childhood..

I’m able to empathise with the need of Israel to not have suicide bombers kill innocent civilians in Israel. I’m capable of seeing Israeli civilians as human beings who deserve human rights.

I’m yet to see you acknowledge my people in return and the fact they don’t need to allow human rights violations against them. The stage is yours in proposing what’s the fair game in them protecting that right? .

1 Israeli to kill alot of Palestininans too.
But im talking about giving them their basic human rights not calling them to sit down at the dinner table with them.
For example ousting them from their own homes would be stoking their inner turmoil and yes, hatred for the Israelis even more I would say.

You might even have future Hamas leaders who hate the opposite side because they have been kicked out viciously out of their homes.
Please do not tell me you think they were asked nicely.
Also they were not scared if that 1 Jihadi then.
Also and I want to point out that I mean not ALL as I know that is what I will get from the next posters in the replies.
I have seen some of the Israeli soldiers smirk and laugh out loud after some of these vicious attacks.

(Not to say Hamas hasnt).
How do these guys sleep at night??
I mention the Israeli soldiers as you are talking like they are scared of that 1 jihadist...seems to me they don't give a.....
They know they are untouchable because everyone else has just turned a blind eye.

@DeepThinkingGirl

Acidburn

I, as a granddaughter or a Palestinian man, denied his home, and a father, growing up in sabra and having to flee for his life as a child.. and all the massive implication that this had on my childhood..

I’m able to empathise with the need of Israel to not have suicide bombers kill innocent civilians in Israel. I’m capable of seeing Israeli civilians as human beings who deserve human rights.

I’m yet to see you acknowledge my people in return and the fact they don’t need to allow human rights violations against them. The stage is yours in proposing what’s the fair game in them protecting that right? .

This. This very eloquently puts how I feel. I am not Palestinian however but I agree with this whole heartedly.

@DeepThinkingGirl i absolutely believe lands grabbing need to stop. Israelies who teach their children to hate Palestinians need to be prosecuted for hate crimes. Every Palestinian deserve the right for education, healthcare, proper living conditions. Moreover - jews and arabs deserve to be able to form relationships without being scared of what their families would do to them. Because you know what? We are not that different from each other! We share similar temperament, we speak similar languages, we absolutely love to eat similar food! I absolutely believe if there was no threat to existence for both sides - we would be great friends!
But I have absolutely no idea how to make this work if im honest. Our leaders have fucked it up completely, and unfortunately at the moment we are so far from understanding each other that I really don't know what it's going to take to fix that.

@DeepThinkingGirl

Acidburn

I, as a granddaughter or a Palestinian man, denied his home, and a father, growing up in sabra and having to flee for his life as a child.. and all the massive implication that this had on my childhood..

I’m able to empathise with the need of Israel to not have suicide bombers kill innocent civilians in Israel. I’m capable of seeing Israeli civilians as human beings who deserve human rights.

I’m yet to see you acknowledge my people in return and the fact they don’t need to allow human rights violations against them. The stage is yours in proposing what’s the fair game in them protecting that right? .

A little bit of context. I'm a British Israeli. My family has been in Israel since the middle of the 19th century and longer, while it was still under Ottoman rule and have been living there for more than 10 generations.

My grandparents were ethnically cleansed from Hebron in 1929 and had to flee, penniless, for their lives. They re-established themselves in Tiberias where my Dad grew up. They lived in a tiny flat facing the old city which was Arab. My uncle (a child) was murdered in the 1930s in the Arab uprising. For years they couldn't use their front door because it was under constant fire from snipers in the old city.

So it kind of pisses me off this whole narrative of being 'colonizers' and the Palestinians being indigenous. Both peoples have claims to the land and that's why the conflict is so intransigent.

Of course Palestinians are equal to Israelis and they are equally entitled to self-determination. That's without question. I have lived and worked in Israel. My boss (civil service) was Palestinian, my university lecturer was Palestinian, my gynaecologist was Palestinian.

I oppose the occupation and want to see a two-state solution. I don't think a bi-national one-state solution would work. But I also don't see how a two state solution could work now - thanks to Israeli settlements and Palestinian refusal to give up the right of return (you can't have your own state AND the right to return to what is now Israel). I am happy to give up my "right of return" to Hebron. I recognise it is a Palestinian city now (even though that was due to ethnic cleansing) and I do not support the Jewish Israeli settlers there even though they are in what was once Jewish Hebron. I am more than willing to live within the borders of pre-1967 Israel (other than parts of Jerusalem). Palestinians need to do the same and the countries they live in need to finally recognise reality and assimilate them.

The majority of Israelis do see Palestinians as human. It's not true that they don't - there's a disgusting racist far right minority but they do not represent Israelis just like the EDL doesn't represnt England. None of my friends or family feel like that. None of them are happy about civilian loss of life in Gaza although they want the missiles to stop.

[quote Acidburn]@DeepThinkingGirl i absolutely believe lands grabbing need to stop. Israelies who teach their children to hate Palestinians need to be prosecuted for hate crimes. Every Palestinian deserve the right for education, healthcare, proper living conditions. Moreover - jews and arabs deserve to be able to form relationships without being scared of what their families would do to them. Because you know what? We are not that different from each other! We share similar temperament, we speak similar languages, we absolutely love to eat similar food! I absolutely believe if there was no threat to existence for both sides - we would be great friends!
But I have absolutely no idea how to make this work if im honest. Our leaders have fucked it up completely, and unfortunately at the moment we are so far from understanding each other that I really don't know what it's going to take to fix that.[/quote]
This also. This sounds about right. As I have mentioned so many times. The powers in both countries are staging a political war yet it is the civilians on either side who bear the brunt.
I do not know what it will take or how many lives will be destroyed before this all stops. But change needs to come and as soon as possible also.

Also I will like to apologise about my writing. Hopefully you will understand what I mean in posts.
I am trying to do 2/3 things at the same time and I was never good at multitasking!!

@AnnieLofriar
I feel for your family. That is so sad for them.
Which is why I also feel sad for the Palestinians.
1 thing i would like to ask though as i am unsure of this. The current people living in their houses, are the ones that kicked them out? If they are then they most definitely need to give the houses back if this is what happened.
If it is the government or someone else though, I am unsure as to what I feel should be done because they too have lived in this house and created memories. Just as it was not right for your family,I don't think it is right for them to be kicked also.
But I honestly do not know what the solution is here.

@AnnieLofriar
I feel for your family. That is so sad for them.
Which is why I also feel sad for the Palestinians.
1 thing i would like to ask though as i am unsure of this. The current people living in their houses, are the ones that kicked them out? If they are then they most definitely need to give the houses back if this is what happened.
If it is the government or someone else though, I am unsure as to what I feel should be done because they too have lived in this house and created memories. Just as it was not right for your family,I don't think it is right for them to be kicked also.
But I honestly do not know what the solution is here.

@Lottie2shoes,

I think the majority of Palestinians are not jihadists.

As I said in an earlier post, they were conned into voting in a jihadist government. However, as the declared aim of Hamas (see the Hamas charter) is to kill all Jews, how can Israel negotiate with them?

It is a very sad situation and I have no good answers. However it has to start with either Hamas recognising Israel’s right of existence or them being kicked out of power.

Your average Israeli and Palestinian have far more in common than most on here realise.

@TheReluctantPhoenix we literally said the same thing