You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

I’m laughing at the idea that Fauda is in any way an accurate depiction of Israel and Palestine. It’s about as accurate as The Crown was in showing the real lives of the royal family ie a fictional series using a lot of creative license with a hugely biased viewpoint for dramatic effect.

Waltz with Bashir is an excellent Israeli film based on the experiences of a former IDF soldier and the role of the IDF in the Sabra and Shatila massacre (when Christian Lebanese slaughtered Palestinian Refugees and Shia Muslims with the help of the IDF)

It is obviously in the last, and set in Lebanon, but it is a former IDF soldier’s account of the atrocity and his guilt. It demonstrates how Palestinian lives were seen as worthless by many in the IDF, particularly senior military figures such as Ariel Sharon.

It is a critically acclaimed by many. And I think the importance of this being made by Israelis is very important - it is not eg Hezbollah propaganda.

‘
I’m laughing at the idea that Fauda is in any way an accurate depiction of Israel and Palestine. It’s about as accurate as The Crown was in showing the real lives of the royal family’

Same, in fact I’d argue that it’s even less realistic given that it’s from one POV only, and that POV is to justify Israeli military action, a bit like Homeland justifies the US using torture and black ops but still tries to take the moral high ground.

I’m laughing at the idea that Fauda is in any way an accurate depiction of Israel and Palestine.

Good to see you in a jolly humerous mood. When the rest of us cant stop feeling sorrow for the traumatised children on what should be out first day of celebrations.

Would you mind keeping your tone sensible ? As this is a disheartening thread and laughing isn’t for here

It's not 'laughing' in a happy sense though is it? It's more along the lines of something being so far fetched it laughable that anyone could be using it as an example of why the Israeli State uses it's military power the way it does against such a weak opponent.

*indeed there were protests again Iraq intervention, but we still went ahead and did it anyway. I was also surprised at the recent NI massacre report (admit I only read the headlines).

Israel is doing things I'd consider very very wrong, but we've done similar things (and a lot worse). Given human nature, and a strong military, I'm not sure so we would not do again in future.*

Israel is in a totally different situation to anything we can imagine living under in the UK. I guess as we bombed the shit out of countries in the ME while our civilian population was 1000s of miles away safe and sound - we should accept their few stabbings sprees and bombing retaliations in recent years. bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-bad-optics-of-fighting-for-your

This is a horribly complex problem and whilst we can all condemn the Israeli government for its current behaviour towards the Palestinians that will not solve anything. Arab countries have to guarantee the safety of Israel as a state or there is no incentive for Israel to stop. If the countries around you don’t recognise your right to exist then you will keep fighting.

Israel for its part needs to deal now with the internal repression of Palestinians and the land grabs. That is creating generations of resentment. This will not happen under the current regime.

@DeepThinkingGirl I apologise for using the word ‘laughing’ that was insensitive wording. Please believe me when I say I find I’m horrified at what is happening in Palestine at the moment.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Israel for its part needs to deal now with the internal repression of Palestinians and the land grabs. That is creating generations of resentment. This will not happen under the current regime.

So thats an undisputable point. Shouldn’t someone be condemning those land grabs ? And holding Israeli government responsible.

That is NOT “self defense”.

More so,

Arab countries have to guarantee the safety of Israel as a state or there is no incentive for Israel to stop.

Any terrorist organisation can use this very same excuse. Do people need incentives to not commit war crimes ? Does self defense always mean war crimes ?!

Shortbreadbrokemytooth

Sorry I think I misunderstood your point. I assumed you were claiming that the Palestinians were being dramatic. Not thinking straight today ! My bad.

Should probably get off and try celebrate with my kids

'So thats an undisputable point. Shouldn’t someone be condemning those land grabs ? And holding Israeli government responsible.'

They are, but Israel doesn't care. They just find more and more ways and excuses to continue doing whatever they want, unfortunately.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Absolutely. People don’t seem to have imagination living as a jew in a tiny country in the ME surrounded by those who would wipe you out if they could and have tried several times. The Israelis are utterly paranoid and not without good reason

Deepthinkinggirl
It’s a matter of practicality. Israel will not stop when it feels constantly threatened.

Bluntly, I think it suits some of the current Arab leadership to keep the Israel / Palestine conflict going. It creates a focus for anger that would be directed internally otherwise.

DH’s is from Algeria and the level of corruption is appalling. Street protests have been running for a year now. Of course governments like that want to say don’t focus on us focus on them.

Europe has meddled in North Africa and the Middle East for centuries and we have some responsibility for this mess. We need to find a way to reflect the needs of both sides - it can’t be a zero sum game.

Israel is surrounded by countries whose averred aim is to drive ‘the Jews’ into the sea. Hamas will not join negotiations on the basis of recognising Israel as a state.

The reality is that most countries were ‘created’ politically by a series of wars and population displacements. I am not sure how the U.S would react if its Native American population demanded an independent homeland, including sharing N.Y.

The Jews, due to the Shoah, arguably deserve a safe space more than most.

There is a solution possible. Israel needs to give up some of the settlements and control its extremist (racist) population, who are mainly recent immigrants anyway. They also need to find a way to co-exist with the Palestinian areas, and somehow share Jerusalem (as was pretty much the case when I visited in the early 80s as a student).

However, in return, Hamas needs to recognise Israel, and the Golan Heights need to be recognised as part of Israel. They are not v habitable and are only desired as a staging post to invade Israel, something no Israeli could possibly countenance.

Reconciliation and trade is the way ahead, However, blaming Israel for overreacting as rockets are being fired at their civilians is not sensible.

Of course, casualties are asymmetric. However, given that Israel could bomb the Gaza Strip out of existence and take 100s of 1000s of lives, their responses are (in terms of war) moderate. Compare it to the US response to 9/11 for instance.

However, in return, Hamas needs to recognise Israel, and the Golan Heights need to be recognised as part of Israel. They are not v habitable and are only desired as a staging post to invade Israel, something no Israeli could possibly countenance.

Ofcourse you would say that. How entitled.

And I speak as an Arab, whose grandfather was kicked out of Haifa.

Ofcourse the solution would be for me to give in completely.

Deep Thinking Girl
Your family trauma runs deep and needs to be respected.
However, any resolution is going to let people down. There is no answer that will address decades of hurt. The approach will have to be painfully pragmatic or more people will die.
Northern Ireland has a 400 year history of troubles. We can all see how much more suffering will happen if this conflict carries on for that long.

@DeepThinkingGirl,

Well, yes, of course I would say that. And, as the poster above said, your experience is to be respected.

However, at school, my best friend’s father who was an ENT surgeon, was a Sephardi Jew kicked out of Egypt when they expelled their Jewish population, who had lived side by side amicably with the Arab population for many years. And, of course, those who lost their lives and property in the Shoah (in which millions were displaced and killed) will never get land back.

So, I don’t think I am ‘entitled’.

Trading the ‘victim card’ will not lead to any kind of reconciliation or settlement.

The below is the way ahead, but we need much more of it.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theculturetrip.com/middle-east/israel/articles/daniel-barenboim-and-edward-said-s-west-eastern-divan-orchestra/%3famp=1

Your family trauma runs deep and needs to be respected.

Well thank you.

But what does respecting my trauma mean to you? Aside from ensuring there is no continued abuse and evictions of people out of their homes ?

Coming up with excuses to absolve the Israeli population form any responsibility towards addressing the issue of illegal settlements, is NOT respecting my trauma.

And no, it shouldn’t be conditional.

The reasons why the Arabs hate Israel is exactly because of the evictions that happened across history and the deception that followed.

You want us to suck it up and just accept it because somehow it is important to you for us to do that, and what’s important to you is more of a priority than what’s important to our own ?

That’s quite entitled my friend

So long as Israel continues to harass Palestinians in East Jerusalem and kick them out of their homes, and people worshipping at the mosque..

So long as it does not have boundaries in what it calls “self defense” and commmits war crimes

So long as Israel doesn’t abide by international law...

Then NO ONE wants to negotiate with terrorists.

Fix your government if you’re Israeli and reading.
So long as you don’t hold them responsible for these violations of international law, you will be internationally disliked.

It’s a natural consequence. Really. Very very simple.

@DeepThinkingGirl

Your family trauma runs deep and needs to be respected.

Well thank you.

But what does respecting my trauma mean to you? Aside from ensuring there is no continued abuse and evictions of people out of their homes ?

Coming up with excuses to absolve the Israeli population form any responsibility towards addressing the issue of illegal settlements, is NOT respecting my trauma.

And no, it shouldn’t be conditional.

The reasons why the Arabs hate Israel is exactly because of the evictions that happened across history and the deception that followed.

You want us to suck it up and just accept it because somehow it is important to you for us to do that, and what’s important to you is more of a priority than what’s important to our own ?

That’s quite entitled my friend

So you have just admitted that Arabs hate Israel. Disclaimer - they hated it long before any settlements have appeared, they have always wished us dead. In this matter - do you really wonder why Israel does what it does?

Acidburn

I’m sorry. Today is a busy day for me and I can only replied to well informed posts.

Deep Thinking
My children are Muslim, my husband is North African. The situation in Israel and Palestine is harming all Muslims and all Jews. It is good for no one.

Ask yourself why Egypt doesn’t just open the border with Gaza? The Palestinians aren’t just trapped by Israel.

At no point have I justified Israeli settlements but when you start posting about Arabs hating Israel then there can be no solution. If hatred exists on both sides then the deaths will continue.

No matter how objectionable people find the other side- if people can’t find a way to talk - children will carry on dying.

So you have just admitted that Arabs hate Israel. Disclaimer - they hated it long before any settlements have appeared, they have always wished us dead. In this matter - do you really wonder why Israel does what it does?

Actually, let me dissect your post.

So you’re saying, Israel has the right to bomb the shit out of children and kick families out of their home and attack worshippers because of their negative feelings ??

So feelings, are penalised ?

Yes bro, we don’t like you. No one in the Arab world likes Israel.

We love our human rights instead. Maybe don’t make us choose between our human rights and you.

You aren’t that special or glorious. You are like any other human. When you do crappy things, people will dislike you.

my toddler knows this.

I’m talking about the government and those that support it. Including the Arabs and Druze and Christians that support israel in a way that excuses it’s behaviour.

So no, I’m not anti semite. I’m a humanist who hates human rights violations. I’m entitled to hate your governments actions and those that support it.

You are welcome to hate my Arab governments. I hate them too.