You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

Hence both sides need to sit down and have a proper peace agreement and both sides stick to it or be held accountable.

The problem with this is the two most commonly proposed peace solutions don't benefit Israel.

A two state solution might result in a short period lower tensions/violence. However, the moment blockades are lifted Hamas et al will essentially be let lose and considering their expressed aim is to conquer Israel and replace it with a Muslim state, it won't be long before violence starts again. Only this time Hamas will have the run of the new Palestinian state, including ports and borders for shipping in weapons/fighters/equipment etc.

A one state solution will also result in the release of Hamas and all that entails but also risks the Jewish population becoming a minority. If that eventually happens they'll either be "democratically", or forcedibly removed from power, and Israel will cease to be. Remember most of the region don't recognise Israel's right to exist. Once they're a minority there's zero chance they'll be allowed to exist in peace.

It's easy enough to say both sides have to reach an agreement but when one side has everything to lose you can see why there'd be reluctance to do it.

www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-182946/

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/28/israeli-snipers-targeted-children-health-workers-journalists/amp/

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.middleeastmonitor.com/20191030-israel-sniper-who-killed-palestinian-child-given-months-community-service/amp/

electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/snipers-ordered-shoot-children-israeli-general-confirms

As someone just said on the news - you can’t have a quiet occupation. Every day of occupation and blockade is an act of violence. Taking peoples houses, storming a religious compound - acts of violence and aggression. I don’t support Hamas but how can anyone expect the Palestinians to put up with this day in day out and not crack under the pressure. There is right and wrong - that isn’t affected by who was there first. We boycotted Israel back in the 80’s (along with chile and South Africa) so it’s not like it hasn’t had time to sort its life out. Numerous organisations have called the system there apartheid - you can say whatever to defend the indefensible but it doesn’t change the facts. It’s a one sided war of occupation. These people have fuck all. And there is no escape. I’d be throwing stones too.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/english.alaraby.co.uk/english/amp/news/2020/3/7/israeli-snipers-boast-about-deliberately-crippling-gaza-protesters

@Warsawa31

The creation of the Israeli state was a result of the Holocaust and they fought a war instantly as soon as the country was created in 1948

This is wrong. As I said on my very first post, a Zionist state was established by the British, via the 1917 Balfour Agreement, by the British. Despite the British having promised the Arabs autonomy after the Arabs fought with the British against the Ottomans. The British wanted a Zionist state to help protect their empire give. Palestine’s proximity to the Suez Canal.

The rise of nazism as well as the continued anti-semitism of the west meant that migration of Jews to Israel accelerated in the 1930s. The British left Palestine in 1947 and the ruling Zionists declared Israel to be a Jewish state.

It was not simply created as a result of the Holocaust.

Ooh someone has a detached house. How lucky are they?
No tax you say? 👏

Better not get too close to a sniper though.

mondoweiss.net/2019/07/residents-israeli-snipers/

I am not blind to the plight of Palestinians op - neither am I blind to the plight of Muslims in China or Burma, the entire North Korean population, Christians in the Middle East, Jews in Europe, the displaced population of pacific islands that are now us military bases. The yazidis who were systemically raped and killed in isis controlled Syria. And the fucking list of cruelty committed by humans to humans goes on and on and on.

My point is at its core this - Israel is a tiny speck of some order with freedom and rights for all citizens in a region decimated by civil wars. Is it perfect ? Nor is anyone not by a long shot. They have millions of Arab citizens - how many Jews live in Arab nations ? The answer we both know is little to none and why is that ?

It's really not a one sided evil oppressor v oppressed.

I hate the fact that people die all the time and have to suffer but can you honestly say this situation is uniquely bad in light of the examples given and the innumerable examples of human cruelty throughout history

@Justnot you would be throwing stones at someone who did absolutely nothing to you ? Well, in that case - can I please have your adress - I would like to come around and punch you in the face. That's ok, right? I mean - I feel outnumbered on this thread, so I will get violent with random people I don't personally know.

Acidburn

@DeepThinkingGirl I was a young 20 year old girl in the car when I was assuulted by a couple of lads from East Jerusalem. I was alone in the car, and I was just waiting for the traffic light (not in East Jerusalem, but nearby). Thank God someone else pulled over and got involved.
I was 22 years old - again alone in the car - when a group of children from East Jerusalem threw rocks into my window and broke it in pieces. They could have killed me.
But I suppose these things are ok in your book, right? It's ok for 2 men to attack a single young girl in her vehicle because they feel opressed by the actions of the Government?
You cannot advocate for the rights of people in East Jerusalem as long as they attack Jews living nearby, and teach their own children that its ok to throw rocks. I have done absolutely nothing to these people, and anyone who tries to attack me should be prosecuted - regardless of their heritage / religion / postcode. And unfortunately you have lots of young men in East Jerusalem who behave that way.

Ok, I get the impression that the international immunity of Israel is because you believe it’s acting in self defence.

Fine, let’s put a line under that now, and agree to disagree.

But given your perspective, if Israel is acting in self defence, should it not still be answerable to international law ? And who is making sure of that?

I don’t want to get into personal anecdotes. trust me, I have pleehhhntyy. But let’s think of the kids burning right now and having no safety at night and actually try limit them damage to their childhood please. Me and you are adults and can put emotions aside.

The difference being all those places are universally condemned by all including the US most importantly
But Israel is just defending itself. 🤷🏽‍♀️

@Acidburn this is from the UN - there’s loads their site, by the way, about how Israel repeatedly breaks international law to oppress the people in OPT. This is about the blockade, the one that prevents Palestinians from providing for themselves in any meanful way:

‘ 1. The Gaza blockade (through the land, air and sea) is a denial of basic human rights in contravention of international law and amounts to collective punishment. It severely restricts imports and exports, as well as the movement of people in and out of Gaza, and access to agricultural land and fishing waters. Gazans are unable to provide for their families and the quality of infrastructure and vital services has deteriorated.’

@Acidburn and this is a crib fromAmnesty - again, if you want to delve into any of these areas there’s much more information, facts and actual figures, proof, that kind of thing on their website.

You can also find lots of info on the websites of NGOs working in the OPTs -

This info below is an overview of the human rights issues for 2020 in Palestine.

‘ Israel continued to impose institutionalized discrimination against Palestinians living under its rule in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT). It displaced hundreds of Palestinians in Israel and the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, as a result of home demolitions and imposition of other coercive measures. Israeli forces continued to use excessive force during law enforcement activities in Israel and the OPT. Israeli forces killed 31 Palestinians, including nine children, in the OPT; many were unlawfully killed while posing no imminent threat to life. Israel maintained its illegal blockade on the Gaza Strip, subjecting its residents to collective punishment and deepening the humanitarian crisis there. It also continued to restrict freedom of movement of Palestinians in the OPT through checkpoints and roadblocks. The Israeli authorities arbitrarily detained in Israel thousands of Palestinians from the OPT, holding hundreds in administrative detention without charge or trial. Torture and other ill-treatment of detainees, including children, were committed with impunity. The authorities used a range of measures to target human rights defenders, journalists and others who criticized Israel’s continuing occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Syrian Golan Heights. Violence against women persisted, especially against Palestinian citizens of Israel. The authorities denied asylum-seekers access to a fair or prompt refugee status determination process. Conscientious objectors to military service were imprisoned.’

But I suppose these things are ok in your book, right? It's ok for 2 men to attack a single young girl in her vehicle because they feel opressed by the actions of the Government?

As for this point, I’m not sure which “book” you’re talking about, and where you have such insight into my morals that you can read my mind.

But please for the sake of reaching solutions, try monitor the way you accuse others, as a way to defend yourself against a perceived threat that hasn’t happened yet, as that’s divisive.

Unless I have said that I’m ok with young people attacking a young lady in her vehicle out of nowhere, then you have no claim on me painting me with the same brush as some young lads who decided to lash out on you..

People are individuals. And self defense needs to stay in perspective. Which is the Essence of this argument.

@Warsawa31

I am not blind to the plight of Palestinians op - neither am I blind to the plight of Muslims in China or Burma, the entire North Korean population, Christians in the Middle East, Jews in Europe, the displaced population of pacific islands that are now us military bases. The yazidis who were systemically raped and killed in isis controlled Syria. And the fucking list of cruelty committed by humans to humans goes on and on and on.

My point is at its core this - Israel is a tiny speck of some order with freedom and rights for all citizens in a region decimated by civil wars. Is it perfect ? Nor is anyone not by a long shot. They have millions of Arab citizens - how many Jews live in Arab nations ? The answer we both know is little to none and why is that ?

It's really not a one sided evil oppressor v oppressed.

I hate the fact that people die all the time and have to suffer but can you honestly say this situation is uniquely bad in light of the examples given and the innumerable examples of human cruelty throughout history

Indeed.

My point is - if a bigger, stronger, more powerful
nation uses its might to subjugate a smaller nation, illegally, then the world at large probably isn’t going to show that more powerful nation the respect and understanding it might want. No matter how many people are living in big houses for free...

@DeepThinkingGirl it should answer to international law, I agree with you on that.
And it absolutely doesn't help the situation that there are dickheads among the Israelis who just turn out to be vile people. I am truly sorry for poor kids, women, vulnerable people among Palestinians who have no choive but to live in this nightmare every day. But. And there is but. I would never ever understand teaching this children hatred towards Jews.
I have a friend in Israel who speaks Arabic. She went to the doctors, and had to sit in the reception area waiting to be called in. Next to her was a Palestinian lady with the baby. She was singing a song to this baby, very very quietly, but the lyrics were encouraging to kill a Jew. She was singing it to her newborn. When I hear stuff like that - I am not sure where do we go from here, honestly.

Op- I don't know what would happen if the us condemned Israel and withdrew aid and support - can we honestly say it would make the situation more stable?

I don't have any answers, it seems no one does. I can only hope the situation calms down soon - the most important thing is to keep the loss of life to an absolute minimum.
It's heartbreaking for everyone

Once again @Acidburn for the third time that you have mentioned teaching kids to hate Jews you keep ignoring me repeatedly saying
There are videos online of Israelis singing ‘may they be erased’ about Palestinians while Al Aqsa burned.

You don’t have the monopoly on being horrified at the hate each side children may be taught.

But right now the reality is Israel is breaking international law, it is removing Palestinians from their homes, it does Oppress the people in Gaza, it does target civilians.

None of your anecdotes detract drom the crimes Israel commits

Israel is an Apartheid state.
A shameful state.
Palestinian lives matter.

No one who inhabits Israel right now has stolen from Palestinian people. You are full of hate and you shut down everyone who dares to remind you that there are two sides to this problem. And let me remind you that whether you like it or not - Israel has a right to defend its citizens, same as Palestinians have a right for self defense.

No one inhabiting Israel right now has stolen from Israeli people ?! Isn’t that a bit dismissive of all those Palestinian families who have their stories confirmed by amnesty internationsl snd the UN and international law?

Is it not at all troubling that the dominant party is completely dismissive of the rights of the others, which has been directly witnessed to be violated by international bodies?

You said, Palestinians have the right to defend themselves. How so? What’s the legitimate way for Palestinians to defend themselves?

You said Israeli have the right to defend themselves. Fair enough. Is that an unconditional right ? Is there any law that monitors it? Are the Palestinians allowed to match that force used against them in self defense also?

How far would any of them have to go before they’re considered terrorist?

[quote Acidburn]@Justnot you would be throwing stones at someone who did absolutely nothing to you ? Well, in that case - can I please have your adress - I would like to come around and punch you in the face. That's ok, right? I mean - I feel outnumbered on this thread, so I will get violent with random people I don't personally know.[/quote]
You need help.
Untrain your brain and learn the word Empathy.