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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect a child of three with ASD to sit nicely at the table?

225 replies

Damnrightwrong · 15/03/2021 07:46

Is it unreasonable and/or unrealistic to expect an an autistic three year old to sit nicely at the table at dinner time?

YABU - expecting too much of the child
YANBU - they should be able to sit nicely, regardless of a disability

OP posts:
Original poster
Damnrightwrong · 15/03/2021 10:42

Thanks all

To clarify he doesn't struggle with lunch time and he really enjoys the setting in general, the fact is he's not meeting their expectations with regards to conduct at the table.

Interesting suggestion about hypermobility, it's possible. His half sister has autism and is hypermobile.

He has always been fidgety and one for running off since he found his feet, so much so he's a significant flight risk and we've had some frightening incidents outdoors. I wouldn't give permission for him to be taken on any excursions without a comprehensive risk assessment taking place first.

I couldn't tell you what their plan is and whether they're going to reintegrate him back to the table. I expect that want to but wont until he has learned to sit properly.

OP posts:
Original poster
Damnrightwrong · 15/03/2021 10:43

To answer a PP regarding the degree of his autism and how he's affected, his paediatrican said that they no longer diagnose 'severe autism' anymore but if they did then that's the category he would fall under. He's significantly impacted.

OP posts:
Mumofsend · 15/03/2021 10:45

Too much to expect of most 3 year olds. My Autistic 6 year old can't manage it yet.

Ugzbugz · 15/03/2021 10:45

My NT son is 12 and always has bloody ants in his pants!

Original poster
Damnrightwrong · 15/03/2021 10:47

Thank you for your apology, AdditionalCharacter.

I'm sorry if my OP offended you / if it's a subject close to your heart. I got pretty pissed off with the implication that autistic toddlers should sit still too.

OP posts:
TheVanguardSix · 15/03/2021 10:49

Autism is a movement disorder almost always comes with a nice little side order of ADHD. Does your child's nursery not have a clued in SENCO?
If not, get your little one into a nursery where at least one of the nursery workers is SENCO trained. You're better of sending him to a nursery attached to a state primary, not private.

OP, going by my own experience (not only with my own son but I was also a dinner lady and LSO at a special needs school for autistic children), he will, like every other child- NT and ASD- be able to sit down and eat his lunch with the class. Maybe not at 3 or even 4, but by reception, kids tend to make major social leaps. But also, if he's at a nursery with good SENCO support (primary school as well), there is so much they can do to help him sit down and enjoy his lunch. Try a wobble cushion at lunch. How is he on the carpet/during story-time (again, a wobble cushion can really help)?
ASD kids are fidgety. Could you suggest to his key worker that your son might be allowed extra time to go to a sensory area or outside for a solo run around the playground or a chance to jump in place- just shake all the bugs out, as I call it. ASD kids need to 'stim' and wiggle. They do need to give him space to do that from time to time. I'd invest in a wobble cushion or ask if the nursery actually has one (it doesn't sound like they have an inkling about SEN though).

TheVanguardSix · 15/03/2021 10:50

My NT son is 12 and always has bloody ants in his pants!

Grin I had to laugh at this! My ASD son is the easy one! It's the two NTs that were even more fidgety in their youth... still are! Actually, I could do with a wobble cushion myself!

SleepingStandingUp · 15/03/2021 10:53

I do think it's worth considering whether this school is right for him op

TheVanguardSix · 15/03/2021 10:59

He has always been fidgety and one for running off since he found his feet, so much so he's a significant flight risk and we've had some frightening incidents outdoors. I wouldn't give permission for him to be taken on any excursions without a comprehensive risk assessment taking place first.

OP, my son's keyworker at nursery was the SENCO (which is why she was his key worker, of course). He went on little outings- forest school, local walks in our park, with a harness. All the kids wore hi-vis vests but DS also had a harness. He was a runner! At nearly 7, this aspect of him has totally receded into the background. However, I worked one-to-one with a 10-year-old 'runner' who was what we called our little bird because he was at risk of flying off. I just stayed on him, interacted with him in the playground, walked and jogged alongside him while he ran and stimmed. Your DS, for now, needs his key worker to be way more engaged with him and one-to-one in most scenarios. I'd move nurseries. How do your local primary schools look to you, with regards to their SENCO provision?
He needs to run and stim. The nursery needs to allow him movement time and a sensory space. These are normal things they should be providing, not 'luxuries' exclusive to a private setting.

CeibaTree · 15/03/2021 11:00

I'm really shocked at your pre-school excluding any child from having lunch with their peers autism or not. This seems unnecessarily cruel. I agree with a pp - it's time to think whether or not this is the right school for your son.

Mumofsend · 15/03/2021 11:26

@TheVanguardSix autism is not a movement disorder at all.

nokidshere · 15/03/2021 11:26

Pre school.He now has to eat separately to the rest of the children because he gets up and runs around, doesn't sit still etc.

This is outrageous for any 3yr old regardless of whether or not they have a disability. I would certainly be removing him and finding somewhere else.

makingmammaries · 15/03/2021 11:30

My 16 year old with ASD still does not sit nicely at the table, though I think we are not BU in expecting him to. At age 3, definitely unreasonable.

activitythree · 15/03/2021 11:30

Autism is a movement disorder almost always comes with a nice little side order of ADHD.

What. The. Fuck.

Emeraldshamrock · 15/03/2021 11:36

I agree with @TheVanguardSix regarding the movement if the ASD is sensory.
My DS has 3 extra movement breaks a day, to walk, run, spin, play football, on top of normal yard time otherwise he will not sit for more than a minute, he is in mainstream.
He also eats alone or doesn't eat in his case but sits separately at lunch, DC eating makes him gag.

AdditionalCharacter · 15/03/2021 11:55

@Damnrightwrong

Thank you for your apology, AdditionalCharacter.

I'm sorry if my OP offended you / if it's a subject close to your heart. I got pretty pissed off with the implication that autistic toddlers should sit still too.

It is, I've been that parent whose child has been ill treated because of others rubbish understanding of autism. Thankfully he is nearly finished school, and it has gotten slightly easier the older he gets.

Best of luck with your son, lots of helpful advice from people in the know. Next time, perhaps post on the SN board. I've had such great advice from there when I was a new to the whole SN world.

ChancesWhatChances · 15/03/2021 11:56

@PurpleDaisies I’m not sure how many times I’ve got to say this, but getting up and moving about because you have ASD is absolutely NOT not coping!! My son has ASD, he gets up and jumps around because he physically cannot sit still. He is coping perfectly fine because he is able to stand up and move around which soothes him. Even if it’s just 5 minutes running in a circle, that is him coping. He only starts to not cope when he is prevented from doing this.

ASD children that engage in stimulating behaviours, that get up and jump around and stretch their legs and move, they are coping perfectly fine BECAUSE they’re able to do this. This is a coping strategy for them. The not coping comes when they are prevented from doing so.

I am sick to the back teeth of the ignorance and the harm being done to children with additional needs due to the sheer stupidity and refusal to learn from those that are NT.

TheVanguardSix · 15/03/2021 11:57

@TheVanguardSix autism is not a movement disorder at all.

Our paediatrician's words. Look it up. It's not literally a 'moving about and fidgety' disorder. It is a movement disorder, among other things. The neurological aspect of it affects movement, hence stimming, jumping, need to run, circle, etc.

Branleuse · 15/03/2021 12:00

do they have experience of kids with SEN much OP? Do you have other options of places to send him?

TheVanguardSix · 15/03/2021 12:00

Autism is a movement disorder almost always comes with a nice little side order of ADHD.

"What. The. Fuck."

Just being blunt. I am a mother to an ASD son and I've worked with loads of people on the spectrum. It fucking is what it is, luv. ADHD nearly ALWAYS coexists alongside ASD. Not always, but nearly always. I can't fathom for the life of me why this shocks you. Why does this even offend you? It IS a movement disorder among other things. Read up on it.

Nith · 15/03/2021 12:02

Autism is a movement disorder almost always comes with a nice little side order of ADHD.

It's primarily a social communication disorder that can and frequently does also include a movement disorder.

Comefromaway · 15/03/2021 12:05

Autism is not a movement disorder although some with autism might have a co-morbid movement disorder such as Ataxia.

Comefromaway · 15/03/2021 12:06

And whilst ADHD is a common co-morbidity with autism it is absolutely not the case that it almost always co-exists. Of the three members of my immediate family with autism none have ADHD. One has PDA and one has hypermobility.

activitythree · 15/03/2021 12:10

Just being blunt. I am a mother to an ASD son and I've worked with loads of people on the spectrum.

Ah bless you. That means you can recategorise and name ASD a 'movement disorder, with a side of ADHD' does it Angry

It fucking is what it is, luv.

WOW

ADHD nearly ALWAYS coexists alongside ASD.

No. It does not. It can and often does, but not nearly always.

Not always, but nearly always.

No again.

I can't fathom for the life of me why this shocks you.

Not shocked.

Why does this even offend you?

Not offended. Just stunned at the way you posted that comment tbh.

It IS a movement disorder among other things.

It is not a movement disorder. Fucking hell.

Read up on it.

Erm, perhaps you should.

Sirzy · 15/03/2021 12:13

Most research seems to suggest about 30-50% of those diagnosed with autism also have ADHD so not nearly always.

The comorbidities can include issues surrounding movement but that doesn’t make it a movement disorder and movement isn’t part of the diagnosis process.