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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect a child of three with ASD to sit nicely at the table?

225 replies

Damnrightwrong · 15/03/2021 07:46

Is it unreasonable and/or unrealistic to expect an an autistic three year old to sit nicely at the table at dinner time?

YABU - expecting too much of the child
YANBU - they should be able to sit nicely, regardless of a disability

OP posts:
DarcyLewis · 15/03/2021 08:23

So he couldn’t manage eating in a busy room with lots of children, it was causing an issue for other children too, some who probably also have sn, and the preschool have adapted to find a solution?

Please also remember they aren’t a specialist setting and I’m guessing aren’t getting funding for 1:1?

What would you like them to do differently? Clearly they can’t have one child running round the room at meal times.

activitythree · 15/03/2021 08:24

Having him sat in a separate room from his peers at lunch time is absolutely not on if the only reason they are doing that is to stop him distracting the other children.

The problem here is looking at from the wrong POV. The child has been removed because he isn't coping, which in turn has a knock on effect of distraction for the other children. That part is actually irrelevant. He has been removed, which is great, because he was not coping. That is the key factor.

WhateverHappenedToFayWray · 15/03/2021 08:24

@Soontobe60 I'm guessing you have a relative that thinks your child should just be able to do the same as every other child

It's the preschool setting

AfternoonToffee · 15/03/2021 08:25

They can't really meet his needs, the sitting separately is perhaps not an unreasonable provision, however it is the whole attitude around his needs that are. Is moving him an option?

activitythree · 15/03/2021 08:25

I’d go through anyone treating my ASD son like that. I don’t care if they’re a teacher, a nurse, whatever. No one excludes, belittles and isolates my child, especially not when he has ASD.

Erm? Removing a child from a situation they find stressful and are not coping with is not exclusion, it's the opposite.

Soontobe60 · 15/03/2021 08:26

@activitythree

Tbh OP it actually sounds like the pre school are doing the right thing but you are unhappy your child has been removed from the main group at lunchtime because he should be allowed to sit within that group and behave as he pleases because he has ASD.

That's not how it works. You don't go through school saying 'oh but he is autistic, you can't remove or separate him, he must be allowed to behave any way and still remain in situ'

Many many autistic children have their own space, be it for all or part of the school day. Sometimes it's there is they need it but they don't have to use it, and lots of them don't eat lunch with the main group.

That's absolutely normal. If you think your child has been singled out over naughty behaviour due to his ASD I reckon you are reading the situation badly.

You’re totally wrong. A child with ASD who wanders off during mealtimes isn’t ‘behaving as he pleases’. Autism isn’t where children are just naughty. Isolating any child with a disability because they don’t ‘fit in’ with the norms is what used to happen back in the last century. Thankfully its not so common these days. If you think he’s ‘naughty’ you clearly know nothing about ASD.
Soontobe60 · 15/03/2021 08:29

@activitythree

I’m guessing you have a relative that thinks your child should just be able to do the same as every other child and maybe doesn’t ‘get’ what autism can look like?

OP thinks her child should not be separated.

I know, I hadn’t read the full thread when I wrote that, and assumed it was a relative she was talking about, not staff in the pre school setting.
activitythree · 15/03/2021 08:29

@Soontobe60

????

I never said any of that Confused

autumnboys · 15/03/2021 08:30

I agree he should not be separated from the others. My DS wasn’t diagnosed until he was about 8.5, but nonetheless, he was autistic at 3yo and his nursery accommodated him. Deffo ask for either an OT/SALT/EP to come in and advise them.

WhateverHappenedToFayWray · 15/03/2021 08:30

I'm sorry but I don't thinknt hat the preschool setting are doing right by your child at all. If they had spoke to you and said that they thought it might be a good idea for your child to eat separately as he was struggling to cope in that situation, then maybe, but they have repeatedly complained to you about how he is distracting the other children. It seems more like a punishment than them actually wanting to meet his needs.

crazybunchofdolls · 15/03/2021 08:31

YABU.

Mcend · 15/03/2021 08:32

I'd move him to a one that is more understanding and will do more to help him then just isolate him from the rest of the group.

Whoknows77886 · 15/03/2021 08:35

It depends on the individual child.
Some may be able to, some not. With my ASD son it was hit or miss, depending on the day. You can't generalise and enforce expectations. Some days he'd be ok and some days really hard work trying to get him to sit down.

Clockingon · 15/03/2021 08:36

I'd suggest the pre school may not be the right environment. Children learn lots from eating with others they're taking this away from him. Your dc will realise he's being treated differently, one of mine was treated differently due to a different diet we ended up removing dc because it was detrimental to them emotionally.
For what it's worth my 2 autistic dc could sit well at 3, my non autistic dc couldn't. They can all do this now.

Soontobe60 · 15/03/2021 08:37

@activitythree

Having him sat in a separate room from his peers at lunch time is absolutely not on if the only reason they are doing that is to stop him distracting the other children.

The problem here is looking at from the wrong POV. The child has been removed because he isn't coping, which in turn has a knock on effect of distraction for the other children. That part is actually irrelevant. He has been removed, which is great, because he was not coping. That is the key factor.

Just because a child is not sitting at a table at lunch time doesn’t mean that are not ‘coping’. That implies they are distressed at being expected to do that. He may be very happy to wander around instead of being made to sit at a table. Its absolutely fine for a child with additional needs to have bespoke provision that centres their needs, and it may well be that at certain times they have some 1:1 time in a quiet space so that they are not distracted by the other children. But to remove him because he’s distracting them is appalling. Inclusion isn’t about only including children with SEN if they don't upset, annoy or distract other children. It’s about accepting the whole child, warts and all. It always surprises me when I see just how accepting small children are of others with disabilities, and saddens me when the adults don't behave in the same way.
Soontobe60 · 15/03/2021 08:37

[quote activitythree]@Soontobe60

????

I never said any of that Confused[/quote]
Any of what?

Tal45 · 15/03/2021 08:37

I haven't voted because I think it depends entirely on the individual, mine wasn't diagnosed until much later and has aspergers but could sit and eat at a table at 3 at home/nursery/restaurant, I even remember a church service at 2 that he sat through because I read him picture books in a whisper when he started wriggling. Some children with autism are much more hyperactive than others, hardly sleep and are always on the go, it's all very individual.

The point to me is that you feel he is being segregated due to his disability and that sounds very unfair. However now that mine is at secondary school I wonder if your son may actually appreciate/benefit from having time out at lunchtime in a quiet room? I know mine would and chooses to take himself off at lunchtime to read a book. The attitude of the staff is what is the problem though IMO, they don't seem to have an understanding of ASD and aren't separating him for his benefit but as a punishment. Have they had any training is working with children with ASD? Have they had anyone in to observe him and give them help and advice on how to deal with his behaviour?

I think you need to talk to the person in charge and ask them if they can get some training/advice for the staff - my lo's school had a wonderful lady in from SEND. If not then you'll have to decide whether you want him to stay there, transitions can be tricky for children with ASD so I would look only at how happy he is there - does he go in happy and come out happy? If so I'd keep him there and keep trying to work with them, if not I'd look to move him asap.

NailsNeedDoing · 15/03/2021 08:38

To be fair, my three year old with ASD would have sat quietly at the table, because running about when needing to be seated was never a symptom of his autism, so the nursery aren’t wrong to encourage him to do so.

A three year old will probably be quite happy to have 1-1 attention at lunchtime, they aren’t old enough to ‘need’ to sit with their peers. It would be distracting and encourage negative behaviour from other children if one child is allowed to run about, because they aren’t old enough to understand the concept of some children having different needs when they look fine. The nursery has found a solution that works for all the children, so even though it may be upsetting for you, I think you need to just accept it.

ChameleonClara · 15/03/2021 08:39

I would report them to Ofsted (it is Ofsted for pre-school?) and leave.

They sound awful, to me.

Livelovebehappy · 15/03/2021 08:41

activitythree totally agree. It’s not naughty behaviour, but behaviour that is potentially distracting and has a negative affect on all the other DCs in the group. I’m sure ideally children with autism would not be treated differently to others, but to trump the needs of others by allowing one child to distract others, would be failing the child with autism as well as the other children.

activitythree · 15/03/2021 08:42

@Livelovebehappy

activitythree totally agree. It’s not naughty behaviour, but behaviour that is potentially distracting and has a negative affect on all the other DCs in the group. I’m sure ideally children with autism would not be treated differently to others, but to trump the needs of others by allowing one child to distract others, would be failing the child with autism as well as the other children.
I think I have been picked up incorrectly somewhere along the line. I am not advocating for the child to remain with the group.
activitythree · 15/03/2021 08:43

@Soontobe60

Any of what?

The post of mine you quoted earlier?

NutellaEllaElla · 15/03/2021 08:44

I voted YABU but just because I mean that is ok, if not good to have standards to work towards. If the child is too young to manage it yet then it's obviously a work in progress but I don't think you have to give up on it. Hopefully you see what I mean.

Sockwomble · 15/03/2021 08:45

Providing a less overwhelming eating environment because a child is showing behaviour that indicates they are overwhelmed is reasonable. This would be eating in a smaller group away from the others. Although I think this is more likely to be needed at school rather than in what I would guess is a small setting anyway.

Doing it as punishment or 'because they need to learn' and doing it away from other children (unless there is really difficult behaviour that would upset a nearby child) isn't.

I would look for a better pre school because the school is only going to get worse.

Twoforthree · 15/03/2021 08:49

Having worked In reception in a special needs school with children with autism, I can tell you that there is an expectation that they sit still at the dinner table. Obviously it is a work in progress to begin with, but the expectation is still there.

I can see why you are upset as your child is being treated differently. They shouldn't be complaining about him. They should be working with you in helping your child and should be understanding, however it would be massively distracting for the other children so I can sort of see why they've done what they've done.
If this is the only point of contention, and they are handling him well the rest of the time, I'd let it go.

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