To expect a child of three with ASD to sit nicely at the table?

[Damnrightwrong]

Is it unreasonable and/or unrealistic to expect an an autistic three year old to sit nicely at the table at dinner time?

YABU - expecting too much of the child
YANBU - they should be able to sit nicely, regardless of a disability

[quote WhateverHappenedToFayWray]@BrumBoo I experienced something very similar with my daughter's first pre school. Every time I collected her she was strapped into her buggy and what made it worse was that my 'friend' was the nursery manager. I thought that she would look after her but I couldn't have been more wrong.

The best thing I ever did was remove her from that pre school.[/quote]
I thought the preschool would be just like my other son's one - ran by fully qualified teachers who all rotated the full Early Years groups including Reception. The school hadn't made it clear that the this group was run by an unqualified teacher, something I'd have run a million miles from if it was very clear from the start.

It also may help with adaptions at school. Some of the dining rooms are sensory hell. If he has previously eaten in a quiet environment he may get that adaption in school.

My three year old without autism won’t sit nicely at the table, YABU! They don’t sit nice until about 5! my 6 year old sits wonderfully and will join in the conversation the three year old stands up, lolls about, wonders off.....

Lots of asd children need to eat alone. They get too I overwhelmed in group settings.

I think it's unreasonable to expect any 3 year old to sit nicely at table. The autism is a bit of a red herring. Some autistic children will follow the rules to such an extent they will sit nicely even at that age. Others will find the experience a sensory overload and react with a meltdown. Others still have a strong need to move regularly so will not be able to sit still long in any situation. Really impossible to generalise, but it's unnecessary to even mention autism as for any 3 year old, it's a big ask. Not sure it's helpful to make it 'because they are autistic'.

@VettiyaIruken

You need to change preschools. They clearly know sweet fa about autism and keeping him in that environment will be hugely damaging for him.

Asd is a disability with a set of traits that exist because they are the result of the disability.
It fucks me off that people come out with the utter bollocks of asd is no excuse they still have to..

Go to a blind person and say yeah ok, you're blind, you still have to read aloud what's written on the board.

Go to a deaf person and say being deaf is no excuse for not listening.

Go to someone without legs and say everyone has to walk, you just need to do it.

I'm so fucking sick to death of fucking ignoramuses spouting their utter drivel. If you don't know about autism, keep your fucking mouth shut.

He needs to have adjustments and adaptations same as the examples above would need and to be in an environment that isn't run by fuckwits.

^^ this

The amount of people on the thread showing their ignorance is tragic. This crap is what our dc have to put up all the time.

Too many variables and just onesie of it sorry.

Theres a number of thing to consider
Is it better for him with less stimulation round him.
You say running around but how bad is it.
How do the rest of the other kids cope what effect does it have on them .

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

I think it might be too much to expect of any 3yo.

As above.

Change the pre-school. Unless your child is distressed at sitting and eating with others (my autistic ds would have loved to have been allowed to eat elsewhere when at primary school because of sensory overload) they are singling him out, making him even more different.

I once left a baby music group because the teacher in the toddler class expected 2 year olds to sit nicely in a circle without wanting to wander off and told off the parents. (the teacher of a different class had been brilliant but I'd had to change class times due to work hours).

I can't get my 12 year old ASD child to sit at a table for longer than five mins (if I'm lucky)

@activitythree an ASD child isn’t “not coping” just because they’re displaying behaviour you don’t like. They’re doing what comes natural to them and removing them from a setting just because you dislike their behaviour means they’re unable to learn coping mechanisms for being within that setting.

But no, far far easier for you to remove a child with ASD because you don’t like non NT children. Well done on isolating children and making them feel worthless 👏 👏 👏

DS is autistic. At 3 I'm pretty sure we were sitting nicely at the table at mealtimes and trying to swipe a bite of food into his mouth each time he scuttled past making bus noises.

One thing the school tried that did help a bit was having a separate, smaller room that was used for lunch for some of the kids who had trouble sitting still. They still had company, interaction, would be encouraged to sit still while eating but it was understood by both staff and children that movement breaks were needed.

When I worked in a sen school we often had children seperated at lunch for their own benefit and that of everyone else.
In a small group they could sit when required but lunchtimes with all the noise, lights and sound a sensory overload.
Work was done with those students to try and get them back into the dining hall.
Just like in a restaurant you don’t want children running around because it’s not safe for them.

I have 2 with asd. My 15 year old still struggles in big settings and won’t use the dining hall in school.

@Racoonworld

Surely it depends on the child? Some three year olds with ASD will be able to sit at the table nicely, and therefore could be expected to, and some won’t be able to and that’s ok.

This. We have had several children with ASD in my extended family. Some would be probably better behaved at the table than a non-ASD child. Another would have found it very hard. There's a huge variation. ASD is an almost meaningless blanket term in regard to what you can expect behaviour-wise.

Actually the behaviour that the OP describes COULD be as a result of him. It coping. It could very easily be that the chaos of eating in a group setting like that is sensory hell for him and that’s how he shows it.

I think it does depend on wether they are doing it for the child's benefit or theirs,so my son attends a special school at one point he just couldn't go in the hall and eat with the other children as he got too anxious and distressed ,so they let him go in the hall before the other children and have his lunch,he was also very eager to get to his dessert ,so they gave him his main meal and dessert at the same time and he would eat them together !

I comment as a close relative of a 3 year old with asd/global delay attending a mainstream preschool setting with 1:1 support. I think this needs raising with the preschool to understand what they are doing and how this is in his interests. Is this just to 'keep him out of the way' or is 1:1 worker is doing some individual input with him re managing lunchtime, encouraging him to eat etc? Is there a timescale for this/plan to support him back to eating with the group or does he cope better eating lunch quietly away from the group with 1:1 worker? How are they meeting his needs generally? Is there an autism team you can contact for advice/support? Have to say our local service has been excellent in guiding/supporting the preschool staff and 1:1 to respond to needs more effectively, aswell as contributing to EHCP for future school provision.

I think at preschool they cant have the children running around. They should have staff helping the children do this, and they will use various techniques too to encourage children to sit, and discourage from running around. Hopefully your child will want to sit back at the table with his peers and that will incentivise him to sit down nicely. It did with my kids. It also would soon turn to chaos if they allowed everyone to just run about.

Are you asking if he should just be allowed to run about at lunchtimes without correcting him?
I have autism and so have my kids, and ultimately everyone needs to learn these skills. its not about the fact theyre expecting him to be perfect at this, but it sounds like you want to undermine their strategies because hes autistic, rather than have them help him learn it?
Honestly, if you think this is unreasonable, then just wait till he gets to school.
My advice is work with them to teach your kid. Theyre not insulting him

Just as a sort of side note.

I saw somethign eye opening on a TV program recently. The child had a diagnosis, but for the life of me I can't remember what (ASD or ADHD I think) and could not sit on a chair at the table.

then one of the professionals said - hypermobility is very commonly found alongside this condition, and one of the obvious things is that hypermobile children find it extremely difficult to sit on an upright chair where their feet don't touch the ground. You often see them fidgiting and sliding around. Often this is to enable them to get one foot on the floor.

It was such a simple thing, yet I wondered how many children who 'can't sit still at the table' are similar. That they feel unsettled/unbalanced when they can't put their feet on the floor.

Sorry sidetrack, and I assume nursery has small chairs anyway

You’re totally wrong. A child with ASD who wanders off during mealtimes isn’t ‘behaving as he pleases’. Autism isn’t where children are just naughty. Isolating any child with a disability because they don’t ‘fit in’ with the norms is what used to happen back in the last century. Thankfully its not so common these days.
If you think he’s ‘naughty’ you clearly know nothing about ASD.

Soontobe60 sorry to jump in but I think you totally misinterpreted what @activitythree said, you appear to be intimating they said ASD child was naughty, they never.

At 3 my asd could not sit still for long at all. It’s a struggle for a lot of 3 year olds but add in asd it’s even harder. Now at 10 he can sit still for certain periods of time with learning breaks. Not for too long but considering he couldn’t sit still at all a few years ago he’s doing great.

They’re doing what comes natural to them and removing them from a setting just because you dislike their behaviour means they’re unable to learn coping mechanisms for being within that setting.

Sometimes learning coping mechanisms when they’re in that over stimulating, stressful setting is just not possible. Some of the children with autism are in a quiet room with one or two peers so they could learn those coping strategies. Others wore ear defenders in the main hall. Some were able to sit fit shorter periods before going out for a movement break. There’s no one size fits all strategy.

Running around the dining hall doesn’t sound safe for the op’s child do some sort of adaptation is reasonable. It sounds like the school’s communication has been rubbish though and I’m not convinced they’ve got the right motivation but eating somewhere quiet is really common for children who struggle with lunchtimes.

Children with asd are not uniformly able to do it not do anything. If this was a defining feature it would be far easier to diagnose we’d just all have a tea party.
The nursery are not unreasonable to want to teach him to sit and eat at table. They don’t appear to be doing that though do they? They appear to be excluding him rather than teaching him. You need a plan for them to follow to teach him the skills he needs to achieve. (My ds is fairly severely challenged by his disability. From my experience you will need to make the plan and then let them take credit for it’s effectiveness once it works.) it’s hard and relentless. Find people who understand and build your support.

I struggle to get mine to sit at the table and they’re a good deal older than that with no SEN at all.

Thank you for all of the replies

He doesn't have his ECHP yet but gets alot of 1-1 support.

He doesn't get overwhelmed at lunch time because of eating with the other children, he just struggles to stay sat down in one place. Eloping and running off is a prominent trait and he's very fidgety (sensory)

At home we encourage him to sit down when he eats but it's common for him to get up and cross the room then come back. He does that a handful of times until he's finished his food and we have no issue with it. If we were to force him to remain seated he would get stressed.

The best way to have him sit still at the table is to give him his tablet with a favourite cartoon on but that isn't allowed at pre school, understandably.

I haven't witnessed in person his behaviour at lunch time (there) but the complaints are that he keeps getting up and running off and they want him to be able to sit at the table properly as it's important to learn life skills.

If him eating separately to the other children helps him then I'm ok with that, I just feel they're being unreasonable and realistic to expect him to sit still at a table in the first place.