Marilyn Manson

[Lychee234]

Just wondered what people's thoughts were following the allegations.
I do think it's awful he's effectively been sacked from all employment before having been found guilty of any allegations.

@CSIblonde

The Burlesque star Dita Von Teese has been very quiet in all this. When they dated a while back, she was forever saying he was a sweetheart & loved making cupcakes with her..... I'm now wondering if she was being sarcastic . It didn't convince me at the time: & they made an odd couple .

I think Dita is probably trying to keep her head down. As she was married to Mason, the press will be after a piece of her in this story. She did say this though several years ago: "Everything went downhill after we got married. I started working a lot to escape my home life."

@Puppylucky

19 is very different from 14 or 15. People use teenager as a catch all emotive term to imply exploitation of children, when really they are talking about young women. This infantilisation of women isn't healthy as it assumes that no one below 25+ has any agency for their actions. You see this replayed with young women who are unable to function as adults without significant input from their parents. Not healthy.

People often use adult as a catch all term too even though there's a huge difference between 19 year olds and 25 year olds.

I don't think it infantilises young women at all to call them teenagers.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone making anything even close to an assumption that people under 25 have no agency for their actions either....I personally always think the age is relevant in situations like this to reflect the lack of 'adult' life experience of the people involved and to reflect the fact that sometimes they can be vulnerable or naive due to their young age.

Why is it e even an alluring stage act to degrade and abuse women?

I believe all his accusers - its not just Evan. I hope he gets prosecuted to hell and all the other men who build their ego and status on violence and abuse towards women. Fucking rock gods and movie stars. And that includes Shia La Bouef.

Let's hope our daughters get to live in a better world. And women haters don't get turned into stars.

I think DVT was dignified to leave him for his unacceptable behaviour. All too often, it is so hard to leave someone we are in love with and it's very hard to accept this true face, when the monster reveals himself.
It is her right to not speak (publically or at all) though. She might not want to, it might be very upsetting, humiliating - any number of reasons.

Shia LaBeouf is another weird one. I see commonalities with his 'type' of woman not unlike those of Warner (MM).
He is a very good actor, which is a shame because I feel uncomfortable watching his stuff, now, and it distracts from the story.

Joaquin Phoenix is another one with a very bad reputation for his treatment of women.

Not trying to derail the thread, but I have a question for anyone that cares to answer it. Please believe me when I say I am not blaming the victims here. I have the good fortune to have never been remotely subjected to this kind of abuse. I just don’t understand though why women remain in these horrible relationships. Indeed, Evan was engaged to MM for two years. I’m asking in good faith, is it fear of leaving a man who is a lot more powerful than you? Some kind of Stockholm syndrome? Incredibly low self esteem? I know that many
women do feel trapped in abusive relationships and can’t see a way out. They fear not being believed, or they’re gaslighted, they fear the financial and social consequences. How horrendous to feel trapped in that situation.

@Tinkerbell456

You have answered your own question. There are many reasons a person doesn’t leave an abusive situation. It could be all of the things you have said.

It's show business. If there's bad press then you get dropped like a hot potato.

If he had been thrown in prison for what he has done without any proper investigation taking place then I would back up your view 100%. But we're not talking about the justice system here, it's just record deals. It's business. He will survive.

Very disappointing. Here in the states a lot of ppl associated MM with the Columbine massacre. I guess because the kids listened to his music and whatnot. A reporter once asked him, "If you could go back in time and talk to Dylan and Eric, what would you say?" And his answer was, "I wouldn't say anything. I would listen."

I always liked him for that answer, but am disappointed (though not surprised) he's just your typical mysoginistic scumbag. Also did not know that about Joaquin Phoenix. Dangit.

Dita has recently posted on Instagram that she left because of his drug abuse and infidelity. Dita said she did not experience any other abuse and hopes victims get the support they need.

You stay in the relationship because you forget what normal is. Look at the relationship boards on here. Not only that, I suspect many of us have experiences of being with much older men at a young age and kind of being star struck in a kind of:"wow, he's interested in me! And I'm so young. " well, duh.

It pisses me off that he basically wasn't acting. As a teenage goth, we spent a lot of time trying to convince people that we weren't all freaks- and there he is.

@gaijinetal

Incidentally Dita VT said that she wouldn't tolerate his involvement with ERW while married to her, and that's why she left him. He would have had a teenage mistress alongside a wife if he could have apparently.

Strangely DVT did not mention abuse, aside from the cheating.

It's not strange, in fact it's standard behaviour for abusers to spare one or several of their significant others from abuse.

Its interesting, I wonder what makes them do that, spare one or two from abuse .

But for some artists it IS just an act. Alice Cooper is by all accounts one of the nicest guys in the music industry. Ozzie Osbourne has a wild youth but turned out to be a family man. Song lyrics and costumes are not always a true reflection of the performer.

In regards to DVT comments about her and Brian’s relationship....although her perception is that she wasn’t abused I’d be surprised if anyone could live with someone with that kind of level of addiction and repeated infidelity for so long and not have experienced some level of abuse, even if not to the same extent or of the same nature as others have experienced.

OP have you read any of ERW's testimony yet? Here's an article with some details and a video of the testimony hearing.

www.insider.com/evan-rachel-wood-congress-sexual-assault-survivor-bill-video-2018-2

@Tinkerbell456

Not trying to derail the thread, but I have a question for anyone that cares to answer it. Please believe me when I say I am not blaming the victims here. I have the good fortune to have never been remotely subjected to this kind of abuse. I just don’t understand though why women remain in these horrible relationships. Indeed, Evan was engaged to MM for two years. I’m asking in good faith, is it fear of leaving a man who is a lot more powerful than you? Some kind of Stockholm syndrome? Incredibly low self esteem? I know that many women do feel trapped in abusive relationships and can’t see a way out. They fear not being believed, or they’re gaslighted, they fear the financial and social consequences. How horrendous to feel trapped in that situation.

You may find this article helpful to understand www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/toxic-relationships/201706/the-truth-about-abusers-abuse-and-what-do

Women's Aid and other charities have lots of resources available that answer your questions.

@thegreenlight

But for some artists it IS just an act. Alice Cooper is by all accounts one of the nicest guys in the music industry. Ozzie Osbourne has a wild youth but turned out to be a family man. Song lyrics and costumes are not always a true reflection of the performer.

Ozzy has repeatedly cheated on Sharon, including a full blown affair in 2016, I wouldn't call that a family man.

I found Dita’s statement problematic.

She didn’t say she believed the victims who had spoken out. She implied if he had behaved in that way she “wouldn’t have married him”. She spoke in general terms about people who had “incurred” - disgusting word - abuse to “heal and fully realise yourself” which to me is saying if you were abused you have to think why.

All in all, it smacks of indirect victim blaming. Compared to Rose McGowan it’s absolute bullshit.

Obviously, my fury lies with Brian Warner but I was disappointed in her response.

I absolutely believe Evan Rachel Wood and the others. To watch her testimony in court is absolutely heart breaking. I don't care what clothes he wears or what his lyrics are, an 18 year old does not stand a fucking chance against an older, rich, famous guy. Not a chance.

Let's also be clear: (Some of the) people around this tosser are not just scarpering because they fear being caught up in a scandal. They are scarpering because he is no longer making the big bucks for them anymore. If he was, they'd be working like dogs to cover this up again. This is important, because it makes it clear that cover ups will be happening right now, for other people.

Pinkywoo cheating isn’t quite the same thing as MM is being accused of. ‘Ozzy Osbourne ate my hamster’ could have been much worse if he had been like his stage persona.

Saddened it is only now this has happened and victims felt unable to speak out earlier.

A heartening thing for me is that most of his fans I have seen talking about this online give their support 100% to his victims and make no attempt to defend him (most, of course not all).

I’m a fan of his music and think that he is a very intelligent man. But do I believe the allegations? Yes.