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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Marilyn Manson

343 replies

Lychee234 · 03/02/2021 21:00

Just wondered what people's thoughts were following the allegations.
I do think it's awful he's effectively been sacked from all employment before having been found guilty of any allegations.

OP posts:
Hollanda40 · 05/02/2021 08:22

His video of Tainted Love was incredibly disturbing to me. It actually put me off the song completely!!! :(

daphne101 · 05/02/2021 08:27

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Monsteraobliqua · 05/02/2021 08:31

daphne101

She said he was odd in her book years ago 'the more I got to know him the weirder he became', talking about his drug use, pushing for anal sex 'more often then she was comfortable with', her breaking things off when he went on about wanting to set her on fire, and how he bragged about their fling on TV despite her wanting to be discreet.

Seems like she saw it as part of the package 20-odd years ago when she was very young but now realises it was actually quite unpleasant stuff.

Are you saying she can't be telling the truth because of her work in the sex industry?

Monsteraobliqua · 05/02/2021 08:32

Are you the arbiter of what constitutes abuse now?

Deathgrip · 05/02/2021 08:34

Innocent until proven guilty is legal terminology for a court room. It has no bearing on whether a crime has actually been committed outside of a court room. Abusers aren’t Schrodingers rapists who only become guilty when a sentence is passed. Less than 2% of rape cases are actually prosecuted here in the U.K., let alone lead to convictions. Does that mean that more than 98% of rape cases are false allegations?

There are some celebrities who’ve managed to construct a persona to deflect scrutiny - MM is not the only one, that’s for sure.

Deathgrip · 05/02/2021 08:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it quotes a deleted post.

Monsteraobliqua · 05/02/2021 08:37

Besides, I don't think JJ said it was abuse, just that it made her deeply uncomfortable so she left before it had chance to become worse. She has spoken up to add to the wider picture of his behaviour towards women, possibly demonstrating how it has escalated.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 05/02/2021 08:38

daphne101 you should have just stuck with 'no comment' rather than post that ill informed misogynistic rant.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 05/02/2021 09:47

Apologies in advice for the length of this thread, but it's to help someone I see suffering the way I once suffered. @InsideOfEmptiness. I am so sorry. What that monster did to you was rape. There is no mitigation, no sugar coating. He's a repulsive rapist, you were his victim, and it was in no way your fault.

Rapists like him do it because they know women who speak up won't be believed. Just look at this thread for evidence of that. It's always the woman who bears at least some proportion of the blame. Because she got carried along. Because she withdrew her consent and some bastard chose not to hear. Because she dressed in some way she shouldn't have, or walked somewhere she shouldn't have been, or imbibed some alcohol, or engaged in a change of texts. Because she didn't report it. Because our inadequate legal precedents are skewed in favour of the rapists, and justice itself is a powerful cog in a system that's always represented a man's world.

I was a victim of gang rape at fifteen. That's possibly the reason victim-blamers make me see red. My own father - when some of the truth came out two years after it happened - threw out three disgustingly misogynistic and very contradictory responses. Firstly it must be my fault because I was a slut (like he'd know). Second, if I refused to report it, if they did this again to someone else it would be my fault. Thirdly, he later told my mother he didn't believe me anyway. So either I was a 'slut' or a liar: I couldn't have been both.

Talk about violated twice. I didn't realise at the time that these are stock responses to women who have been victims of sexual abuse. But it did leave me traumatised (there's a larger backstory here) with no idea how traumatised I was until a case of stalking/sexual harrassment in the workplace and #MeToo (coinciding at the same time for me) ended in making me seriously ill. It ended up being cPTSD, and I had 18 months of EMDR therapy. It works. I'm better than I've been in my entire life.

That's real self-care and I'd urge you to consider whether this might benefit you. There are numerous threads on Mumsnet from traumatised posters whose experiences with this therapy have been similarly positive and enlightening. It won't strip the memory away, but it will enable an objectivity and clarity of vision you never thought possible.

Also, some of the PPs on this thread need to take a hard look at themselves. Because God forbid we lay the fuck off victims of sexual trauma and put the blame squarely on the rapists who are wholly, absolutely and 100% responsible.

TastyTicklemore · 05/02/2021 10:10

Enthusiastic round of applause from me @MarieIVanArkleStinks

And I am so sorry to hear all the stories shared on here from people subjected to sexual crimes.

TiersDryOnTheirOwn · 05/02/2021 11:04

I know many on MN don't support sex workers and would probably put model/performer Dani Divine in that category.

Just to say DumplingsAndStew if you’re referring to the feminist board, just because a lot of posters are anti-prostitution does not mean they don’t support the women involved.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 05/02/2021 11:08

Maria thank you for that post. I'm so sorry for what happened to you and how badly you were let down.

OutComeTheWolves · 05/02/2021 11:43

@MarieIVanArkleStinks you've articulated perfectly what I sometimes struggle to. I agree with everything you've said.

PCar20 · 05/02/2021 11:45

@GerardWay123 what’s the rumour about Jared Leto?

TheChampagneGalop · 05/02/2021 12:05

There is a common phrase here, "if someone shows you what he is, believe him".
To this we should add, if a man has a theme of misogyny in his art/books/music/jokes...he likely IS a misogynist.
I really hope fewer abusive men can get away with" I'm just being edgy" or "I'm just joking" in the future.

GerardWay123 · 05/02/2021 12:32

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DumplingsAndStew · 05/02/2021 12:38

@TiersDryOnTheirOwn

I know many on MN don't support sex workers and would probably put model/performer Dani Divine in that category.

Just to say DumplingsAndStew if you’re referring to the feminist board, just because a lot of posters are anti-prostitution does not mean they don’t support the women involved.

Sorry, support was probably the wrong word; 'follow' would have been a better choice. I am only aware of it because I follow her on social media, so I imagine those who don't have reason to do so wouldn't be aware of her situation, if that makes sense?

As far as I'm aware, Dani's circumstances haven't been widely reported, so most people who don't 'follow' her wouldn't be aware of them.

Dizzywizz · 05/02/2021 12:41

What @GerardWay123??

Beebityboo · 05/02/2021 12:44

There have been rumours out there about Leto for a while. I think there's a good chance he'll be next to be outed. Not to mention he's trying to establish an actual cult.

TiersDryOnTheirOwn · 05/02/2021 12:45

No problem Dumplings I see what you mean now. She’s brave for speaking out.

GerardWay123 · 05/02/2021 13:12

A minority of the rich, famous, powerful seem to be able to full their fantasies/fetishes and they are protected.

GerardWay123 · 05/02/2021 13:15

Dizzywizz We were family friends with GL. My Dad walked in on them.

GerardWay123 · 05/02/2021 13:38

@Dizzywizz see above.

Hellothere19999 · 05/02/2021 13:54

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SecretWitch · 05/02/2021 14:30

So tired of all the “Well he was a family man” Fuck that. I got into many fights about the hero worship of Kobe Bryant. Yeah, he was a good basketball player but he raped a woman. People are so damn star struck.

I believe ERW and all women who come forward to speak about their abuse at the hands of rich and powerful men.

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