Marilyn Manson

[Lychee234]

Just wondered what people's thoughts were following the allegations.
I do think it's awful he's effectively been sacked from all employment before having been found guilty of any allegations.

I was sexually assaulted (still can't bring myself to say the R word) by a manager for an up and coming foreign rock band when I was 19 at a really, really vulnerable time in my life. Similar things happened to many of my friends in the "scene" at that time. No one cared though, mostly these girls were accused of "throwing themselves" at these men. The idea being that if you've paid to see their concert and screamed and hollered for them, it's your fault if they rape you. It's repugnant.
Christ knows how bad it was in the 70s/80s and 90s because this was still happening in the early 2000's.
Steven Tyler from Aerosmith was with a 16 year old when he was 27 and even managed to get her parents to sign over legal guardianship of her!
By the time you realise you're in over your head at that age, it's too late. You're in a situation you feel like you can't get out of.
There are hideous, hideous stories about what Manson has done to fans backstage and on his tour bus.

Yes, Brian Hugh Warner doesn't have quite the same mystique does it?

There’s a rather enlightening Twitter thread posted last year by a guitar technician who toured with him:

mobile.twitter.com/DanCleary79/status/1304976908489076739

Pretty much in line with the allegations made.

Everyone has known for a loooong time. When multiple ex's are saying the same thing and his employees have started to speak out about what they saw (in the case of his PA, threats of rape, torture & murder if they didn't do as they were told plus multiple physical and sexual assaults) then I think we absolutely do know what he is and I don't feel bad for him in the slightest.

@Puppylucky

19 is very different from 14 or 15. People use teenager as a catch all emotive term to imply exploitation of children, when really they are talking about young women. This infantilisation of women isn't healthy as it assumes that no one below 25+ has any agency for their actions. You see this replayed with young women who are unable to function as adults without significant input from their parents. Not healthy.

Recognising that many people at the age of 18/19 are still immature and naive and recognising that an 18 year old girl is likely to be in much a less powerful position than a 36 year old wealthy famous man isn’t ‘infantilising’.

@Washimal

I am so sick people bleating "what happened to innocent until proven guilty?" in relation to this story. He hasn't been thrown in jail, he's just lost a record deal! His label shouldn't need a high court judgement to decide they don't want a business relationship with him anymore.

I'll save my sympathy for the many, many women and girls whose lives are ruined by male violence before I worry about poor Marilyn Manson's loss of earnings.

This!

Interesting comments by Wes Borland came through on my news feed.

tonedeaf.thebrag.com/limp-bizkit-wes-borland-marilyn-manson/

@tttigress

I hate all of that stuff about him just projecting an image, just playing a part, being very clever and artistic. Can think of others who hide behind this sort of thing.

RE: the murky world of teenagers at concerts. I would say there is a lot of stuff that goes on in the rock scene (and probably other scenes, but I was into rock), with a lot of older guys hanging out with much younger (like 14/15) year old girls. I was saying something similar on a thread the other day about much older guys at the sixth form college that never seemed to leave. Really gives me the creeps looking back.

Definitely is a thing, teen girls being preyed on at gigs. They’re more likely to be starstruck and easy to manipulate. Back in the mid 99s when I was an older teen myself I remember meeting two 15yo girls at a gig. I’d say a “Britpop” type band, sounds a bit similar to MM in a way, if you get my drift. We all met the band and, frankly, the singer was a skeevy creep. I tried to give the girls a lift home but they were having none of it. We swapped names and addresses, and the girls later wrote to me telling me they’d gone back to the band hotel and basically been coerced into sexual acts with the singer and guitarist. It was clearly not an enjoyable experience for them but they were still starry eyed about it purely because of who the men were. Turned my stomach. I bet it went on all the time and still does.

[quote Iwonder08]**@sphagnum*..I am not blaming the victim. I don't think they are stupid, I just don't believe a grown woman would think MM is type for holding hands, walks on a beach and cuddling on a sofa with a bottle of wine. You have one look at him it is absolutely clear he is a severely disturbed person who would be in some serious perverse sex sht. I personally think whatever happened was consensual[/quote]
so are you saying that all goths are severely disturbed people and should be avoided?

What I don’t understand is why all these beautiful women would even give him the time of day.

He’s one of the ugliest men I have ever seen. Looks like the love child and cross of Dracula and an alien shudder

There's a hell of a lot more information and proof out there than the newspapers are reporting, it's been being discussed for months on one site I use. He's disgusting and deserves everything coming to him and I do say that as a previous fan.

Dita Von Teese seems very dignified and admirable in all this. Glad she walked out on him.

He is a 100 percent guilty. I have met him on a few occasions ( I am not a celeb but work with them )
He is a very disturbed man !

@Beebityboo didn’t take it as such and completely agree with your point! I think he came across well to the naked eye and that’s what people remember. Most people know limited amounts about MM or the boys involved at Columbine so without the context he comes across well. If that makes sense, and as he has failed to be relevant since then pretty much that’s a lot of people’s point of reference!

I was a pretty huge fan of m m and I don't even particularly like Rachel Evan Wood but even I don't doubt her on this. It's pretty much common knowledge as to how he treats the women he's with. I mean there's always been a denial factor as it's all just his stage persona, yadda yadda but obviously not.

I'd be interested to see if DVT will come out and say her piece on it all..

Even as a 14 year old (in the early m m days) I didn't go to his gigs because I was aware of the shit he pulled on stage / with the crowd (and I was there for early Slipknot 😂)

Justanotherlurker said 'I recently read Alice coopers autobigrophy and he hinted at the trouble with always playing a character.'

Difference being Vincent Furnier is known by all and sundry to be one of the nicest people in the world and has been happily married since 1976. The character of Alice is an over the top, fun theatrical performance and not a creepy weirdo like Marilyn.

@IndecentCakes

Dita Von Teese seems very dignified and admirable in all this. Glad she walked out on him.

What's dignified? Keeping silent instead of speaking out like Wood?

Like his friend JD he started to loose his appeal his management are not so keen to work at keeping his secrets secret anymore

Bullshit. They dropped him because someone else outed him and they think they can distance themselves from him. As long as he was making them money, they’d have kept the secret. They are as complicit in this as he is. The only reason people like him get away with it is because those profiting from them enable the behaviour.

What needs to happen next is, every company who kept this quiet should find themselves with no clients. That’s how this shit stops.

I won't lie, this is messing with my head.

I have, in the past, known people who travel/travelled in the same circles. I'm now questioning whether they knew, whether they were mistreated by him, whether they were acting similar.

It's making me think on the past, and question things.

He turned ERW into a teenage dita von teese, her entire image was manipulated and teenage girls (myself at the time) gave her shit on internet forums for being the ultimate groupie. Its very clear not with the hindsight of being an adult to see it was grooming.

Any adult in the room at the time now coming forward to corroborate ERW can hang the head in shame they didn't do anything back then to help her.

I cant deny this has all really messed with me. I discovered MM when I was 12/13. I was obsessed.

I knew they were bad men.. In an instinctive type of way. But that lured me in all the more. I was at MEN guns god and government tour as a very young teen and I just ached to.be selected to be dragged on stage and ragged around during sweet dreams or picked to go back stage.

He had a terrifying way of hooking you in .. Like a cult leader. I can honestly understand how youngish women convinced themselves that he was a Christian Grey kinda bad guy and allow the earlier abuse to build up to the terror they've described. And I imagine the shame of initially having some vague idea of what they were getting in to kept them quiet.

Even now as a fully fledged adult I get an odd feeling listening to some of the earlier music .. I hate that my gut was right but relieved too that im not totally unable to recognise danger.

If he's been admitting to it for years I suspect he might come out and vaguely own up again hence his management team taking over the handling of it all.

This sort of permission famous people have to behave this way under being edgy and performing needs addressing but in conjunction with the need to explore why young women and girls sought these men out. I know I 100% was one of thousands at the gig alone that would have willingly gone back stage that night.

Interesting that people like Wes Borland didn’t say anything, or challenge this at the time isn’t it?

I don't think anyone expected a pipe and slippers. I don't know enough about him but maybe we need to be careful not to allow a bizarre persona to ever make these attitudes look edgy or acceptable.

[quote Iwonder08]**@sphagnum*..I am not blaming the victim. I don't think they are stupid, I just don't believe a grown woman would think MM is type for holding hands, walks on a beach and cuddling on a sofa with a bottle of wine. You have one look at him it is absolutely clear he is a severely disturbed person who would be in some serious perverse sex sht. I personally think whatever happened was consensual[/quote]
Evan Rachel Wood wasn't a "grown woman". He groomed her whilst she was still a teenager. Even if she had been older he still abused her, groomed her, made her afraid.

he hasnt been hung with no jury-Anyplace that auto-sackt him pretty much HAS too UNLESS they want to be seen as promoting him/or are prepared to actively take his corner.
he is-in merch/ads/whatever-just another face