To ask if there are any groups of reasonably minded women & trans women trying to meet each other 1/2 way and sort this whole sorry mess out?

[Smiledwiththerisingsun]

I have been mostly on the side of the TERFS (trying to explain reality to fuckwits) until recently.

But the issue of trans rights trampling all over women's rights has been discussed in the mainstream media now & I think people get it.

I'm just wondering how we can reach an amicable conclusion?

I have a couple of friends with trans or non binary kids. They are lovely. And I wouldn't mind sharing a bathroom with them.

They are not the same as a male rapist saying "I'm a woman put me in a female prison"

Surely we can treat the two situations differently?

There needs to be more kindness on both sides.

Anyone agree?

quite, Whatwould. For accuracy, I thought I should add the correct terms to the thread.
It is rather telling too, the amount of people who say we need to be kind, who say they want to meet in the middle, but cannot help themselves from using transphobic language. Transwomen do not have penis, they have differently shaped clits. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes.

As a surgeon PoletoPole I am sure that you have a great deal of experience of the human body. Could you please tell me what the non transphobic word for transwomens' testicles is?

Sorry didn't read previous posts.

Why is it always women that have to give things up and pave the way for others?

Men are not women. Women need and want places and events where men cannot go.

There is no possible compromise.

Transwomen do not have penis, they have differently shaped clits. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes.

I'm so fucking weary of reading nonsense like this 🤦🏼‍♀️

@HmmSureJan

Transwomen do not have penis, they have differently shaped clits. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes.

I'm so fucking weary of reading nonsense like this 🤦🏼‍♀️

Me too. It's like the Emporer's New Clothes, so fucking obviously a glaring problem and people scared to point it out.

I'm off to see if my female clit ejaculates sleep like a male clit apparently does

Absolutely I would be up for it.

There are a lot of things I don’t understand about transitioning, being transgender etc. I would like to learn more. I would like to discuss some of the questions and concerns I have (eg concerning women’s sport and medical consent involving minors) without being accused of bigotry. I don’t give a fuck about who I share a public toilet with. If anybody wants to rape me they will. I do not feel at risk from anybody trans. I am appalled by the abuse that trans people get when they are doing no harm to anybody. I think there are trans activists doing huge damage to the very cause they are fighting for because of their unacceptable behaviour and if these people ask me to pick a side I won’t pick the one they want me to. I can’t say any of this publicly for fear of attracting a Twitter storm of hate and losing valued friendships.

I don’t know where these conversations are taking place but yes I would like to be involved in them.

I consider myself to be left wing but have noticed that it is easier, nicer and safer for me to openly goad the right on political matters than it is for me to seek clarification from the left on topics that I broadly agree with them about. This is a problem.

Well the fact that trans women are women and trans men are men sums up most of your problems there

Women can enter a women's bathroom. Some of these posts 'not my problem' - unbelievable

Also trans isn’t a new thing and you’ll have been sharing those toilets for years and not noticed

a) clearly the numbers involved are a new thing. Ever since stonewall expanded the transgender bandwidth to include cross dressers.

And b) if you personally believe that consent yesterday means consent today, you might want to take a look at the tea analogy illustrating the concept of consent.

@willithappen

Well the fact that trans women are women and trans men are men sums up most of your problems there

Women can enter a women's bathroom. Some of these posts 'not my problem' - unbelievable

Except they're not.

As a surgeon PoletoPole I am sure that you have a great deal of experience of the human body. Could you please tell me what the non transphobic word for transwomens' testicles is?

Yes of course, they are part of the clit, as I understand it . I should also add the disclaimer that due to the nature of my particular speciality I have not personally dealt with any transwomens` genitals.

Well the fact that trans women are women and trans men are men sums up most of your problems there

I think your problem is that most people know that isn't true.

I am sorry to pick at what I assume wasn`t a serious comment, but again can I please clarify this:

I'm off to see if my female clit ejaculates sleep like a male clit apparently does

Transwomens` clits (the part of their anatomy which was formally called their penis) do not ejaculate. There may, as I am told, be a secretion of their vaginal fluids after they orgasm, but that is not ejaculation.

I went to a bar which had a refurb and solved the issue pretty well
Individual cubicles, fully enclosed floor to ceiling including doors with sanitary bins and a mirror in each one. It was offset so open enough you felt safe but still private. Sink area outside the cubicles along a wall and an archway back out to the bar
I guess space is an issue... I want single sex or something like the above set up where there is privacy yet it's open enough so no danger

@PoleToPole

I am sorry to pick at what I assume wasn`t a serious comment, but again can I please clarify this:

I'm off to see if my female clit ejaculates sleep like a male clit apparently does

Transwomens` clits (the part of their anatomy which was formally called their penis) do not ejaculate. There may, as I am told, be a secretion of their vaginal fluids after they orgasm, but that is not ejaculation.

They don't have vaginal fluids because they don't have vaginas.

A woman's clitoris is the the same as what you call "a man's clitoris" because it is not a penis. HTH.

I really can't believe I have to explain this it's like being in a parallel universe

A reconstructed penis and testicles does not a clitoris make. Stop the nonsense

"Anyone who threatens another person with their penis, whether they call it a ladydick or not, is exhibiting male violence and ends any right they have to be allowed into female spaces. I lost count of the “suck my big fat ladydick” and my ladydick in her mouth would shut her up” type threats toward jkr."

wow.

A reconstructed penis and testicles does not a clitoris make. Stop the nonsense

I wasn`t talking about transwomen who have had bottom surgery, I was talking about the 90% of transwomen who choose to keep their genitals exactly the same as they were at birth, but these genitals are not called their penis and testicles, they are their clit and vagina.

Some trans femmes do prefer girldick, or ladydick to clit and vagina though, so it is best to follow their lead to see which way they would like you to refer to their genitals.

PoleToPole.

You say that

'these genitals are not called their penis and testicles, they are their clit and vagina'

In what way are testicles like a vagina? I genuinely don't understand.

A penis is not a clitoris. The clitoris has a very large internal structure that wraps around the vagina. It's an amazing organ. How is that like a penis?

Incidentally as the vast majority of the clitoris is internal, and female sexuality has been taboo in many countries for a huge amount of time. They only mapped out relatively recently.

It's a very large internal organ.

How is it like a penis?

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/15/3d-model-clitoris-sexual-revolution-sex-education-womens-sexuality

Thats ok <strong>NiceGerbil</strong>, Im still pretty new to this too, and if there is going to be a meeting in the middle as OP suggests we all need to learn together and be kind

Again, a brief disclaimer, I have never seen a transwomens` genitals, and am of the GC persuasion myself, so a lot of this is hard for me to get my head around, not to mention goes against many years of med school.

I have been told that when a transwoman decides to begin identifying as a woman, they become a woman, and their genitals change to reflect this, taking on a more feminine, soft appearance, and begin to have a nice aroma. I stress again that this is not referring to those who choose to have bottom surgery.

"People born men are less vulnerable to physical violence/rape from other men, than women are, because of sexual dimorphism. Men are, in general, physically larger and stronger than women. In the US that is 9% taller and 16.5% heavier. This gives men a huge physical advantage over women."

I don't think this is necessarily true though because I think a lot of trans people were quite androgynous anyway. It's more people who didn't come out as trans until many many years later in life that are more like you say..bigger, more thickset and stronger etc.

My son told me he was a transgender female a few years ago now and she was as I describe above...androgynous, so when she started wearing female clothes and wearing bits of makeup etc she just looked to most people like a woman. She has always been extremely thin and weighs next to nothing!...she's not particularly tall and I wouldn't say she is strong either. This was even before she took any hormones. Now she's been on hormones (which btw she only needed to use a fraction of what is usually recommended to make the changes!) for about a year and the only things that have changed (to look at her) is that she has breast growth and has actually filled out quite a bit more in places like thighs, stomach and she's got softer skin, she looks a lot healthier weight and her face is a bit more filled out too. Everyone says how pretty she is and I don't think she would be stopped in a ladies toilet but she most definitely could get into some trouble in a men's toilet now. She's not long turned 21.

Most transgender people Ive seen or read about etc have been the same as my daughter, they already resembled their opposite sex and with just a little bit of help (clothes, hair style, make up for example) easily would fool most people. This is without hormones or anything else. Then there is the fact that there are also very thin weak men naturally and very tall thickset strong women naturally in the world! So you can't say that men are bigger and women are weak because especially when it comes to transgender people it doesn't seem that the majority is this way. This is my experience/observations anyway.

I would also like to point out that I am at no point saying I agree with this renaming of anatomy, but if people really do want to meet in the middle then they need to be using the "correct" terms.

Personally I dont want to meet in the middle, I am not prepared to share womens spaces and hard won rights with people born male.

'I have been told that when a transwoman decides to begin identifying as a woman, they become a woman, and their genitals change to reflect this, taking on a more feminine, soft appearance, and begin to have a nice aroma. I stress again that this is not referring to those who choose to have bottom surgery.'

??????

So if a man says the magic words, I am am a woman... This happens?

How can a penis and testicles take on a feminine soft appearance? By saying some words?

What is wrong with the smell of men? (Assuming they wash!).

You know cunts naturally can have quite a strong aroma? Which is natural and fine?.

I don't get it. Tell me more.

'Transwomens` clits (the part of their anatomy which was formally called their penis) do not ejaculate. There may, as I am told, be a secretion of their vaginal fluids after they orgasm, but that is not ejaculation.'

So no risk of pregnancy if they are having penetrative sex with an ovulator then.

Do you really believe that?

Do you want that taught in sex ed in schools?