To ask if there are any groups of reasonably minded women & trans women trying to meet each other 1/2 way and sort this whole sorry mess out?

[Smiledwiththerisingsun]

I have been mostly on the side of the TERFS (trying to explain reality to fuckwits) until recently.

But the issue of trans rights trampling all over women's rights has been discussed in the mainstream media now & I think people get it.

I'm just wondering how we can reach an amicable conclusion?

I have a couple of friends with trans or non binary kids. They are lovely. And I wouldn't mind sharing a bathroom with them.

They are not the same as a male rapist saying "I'm a woman put me in a female prison"

Surely we can treat the two situations differently?

There needs to be more kindness on both sides.

Anyone agree?

How it goes is

If the majority of people can be persuaded to get onside with bogs as twaw

Once that is done and twaw then keeping them apart anywhere else (prison sport etc) has to follow.

When we say that we don't want males in single-sex spaces it isn't a judgement on any individual man, however he identifies. There's no level of niceness that means he's allowed in, because that isn't how it works. Women's spaces are for women. If some men are unhappy or uncomfortable in men's spaces, it's up to them to campaign for a third space. Women's spaces aren't terra nullius to be occupied by whomever would like to be in them, they aren't spaces for 'non-men', and it isn't up to women to fix everyone else's problems.

Perfectly put!

@Pukkatea

'Yes OP, I agree. Women need to be protected but trans people also need to be protected. I have no idea how you square this circle but I don't want trans people to suffer being another group condemned to male violence.

People on here comparing transwomen to racists really are utterly disgusting.'

I completely agree!

@Pukkatea
I don’t knkw exactly which post you are referring to when you say people are comparing trans women to racists.
I do know the TRA shite that I suffered through though and I can safely say they are worst than racists. Have you read checked the snapshots of TRA Twitter posts?

Of course there are. You are however unlikely to meet too many of them on here. MN is infamously transphobic.

@toconclude

Of course there are. You are however unlikely to meet too many of them on here. MN is infamously transphobic.

Would you be able to give just one reason why I should let a male-born person enter my safe space?

@toconclude

Of course there are. You are however unlikely to meet too many of them on here. MN is infamously transphobic.

And yet no one can ever explain what they mean by that beyond 'women, shut up and know your place'.

Have you read checked the snapshots of TRA Twitter posts?

This is the thread, in case its helpful to anyone:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3955276-resource-thread-of-tra-screenshots

And while we are on the topic of debunking the myths, there is also the It will never happen thread, which is a real eye opener:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

I'm absolutely fine with trans men in the female loos, too.

I also welcome trans men in womens` spaces.

IME they generally look like very young, butch lesbians.... For some reason.

I'm happy to share female spaces with transmen.

I’m not

@Jojoanna

I’m not

Even though Transmen are biologically women ?

I think it is worth clarifying that

Trans men ---> born female

Trans women ---> born male

Sorry ListeningQuietly, cross posted

I'm not sure the law takes how nice someone is into account. You're a nice kid, you can use X bathroom, you're not so you cant. What would be your suggested solution?

Chicks don’t have dicks.. They never had dicks. It’s that simple. Women and girls should not have to share traditionally gendered spaces with men.

@toconclude

Of course there are. You are however unlikely to meet too many of them on here. MN is infamously transphobic.

But as someone who came late to the debate I have never seen any evidence of an irational fear of transwomen on MN, which us what transphobic means. All I've seen are people expressing reasoned opinion on what they consider the issues are.

Can I point out that many trans femmes (that is those who were born men, for clarity) prefer what would have been called their penis to be called their clit. There are also some distinct differenced between their clit, and a male penis.
Besides threats to choke on them, I am not personally familiar with girldick or clits, but apparently they have a very different "mouthfeel" and aroma to the male penis, and are altogether more feminine in nature.

This actually explains it better than I did, and does not contain any lewd images.

medium.com/@transphilosophr/what-is-girldick-9363515e0bfd

Oh god pole

How could we forget that

They are not the same as a male rapist saying "I'm a woman put me in a female prison"

Agree , I’ve always felt this way
Don’t agree whatsoever with the example you state (it’s totally appalling)
And we need to treat people with kindness

Most people feel this way in RL

Well quite, Whatwould. For accuracy, I thought I should add the correct terms to the thread.
It is rather telling too, the amount of people who say we need to be kind, who say they want to meet in the middle, but cannot help themselves from using transphobic language. Transwomen do not have penis, they have differently shaped clits. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes.