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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was DD overreacting?

370 replies

christmascaroller · 16/12/2020 10:40

Last night we (DH, DD15 and I) were watching something with Fairytale of New York in, and DH said "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say f*ggot anymore". DD told him that it was a slur (which I don't disagree with btw) and that he shouldn't say it even in this context. He said that it was perfectly fine for him to say as he wasn't being homophobic. My AIBU is this: when he said that it was fine to say, DD said "just admit that you're a bigotted twat instead of wasting your breath"!! I told DD that this was unacceptable but she stormed out and hasn't spoken to us since.

YABU: her reaction was perfectly justified
YANBU: she shouldn't be using language like that over a word

OP posts:
berrygirlie · 16/12/2020 11:24

Is she offended by pork faggots too? Also agree that it must be utterly exhausting to be a teenager nowadays, they’re permanently offended.

Attempting to support and empathise with oppressed groups is not the same as being permanently offended (even if she did it in a misguided way).

ancientgran · 16/12/2020 11:25

Oh it is hard being 15. I know some of the words in that song aren't great, I very rarely swear, I'm not homophobic but I still love it. I don't generally like the Christmas songs that get rolled out, I love carols, take me back to childhood so for me it is carols or Fairytale of New York which probably says something worrying about my mental state.

She'll get over it, we all got over being 15 or we wouldn't be here as adults.

heydoggie · 16/12/2020 11:26

Interestingly there was a huge political scandal in Ireland where a politician did use the 'n' word, in the context of quoting horrific abuse someone was getting on the internet. He literally was reading something out as an example of awful racist abuse, and forgot or didn't think to substitute the n word instead of saying the actual word, and was then accused of being racist which seemed completely insane. It took a couple of days for anyone to defend him publicly and say that maybe the twitter witch hunt was over-stating it (I am mystified by him not knowing better, but really nothing about the man's history suggests he is in any way racist).

I don't think it is great to quote words that are slurs but I'm very wary of a world where we can't say or spell them out without being assumed to be racist/homophobic as it gives them a level of power they don't deserve. Similarly, I remember 1980s Ireland and faggot was used as an insult but very definitely not solely an anti-gay slur. The woman in the song wasn't using it to insinuate he was gay, it wasn't like the way teenagers say 'thats so gay' with the background assumption being 'gay=terrible' it was a word that had multiple contexts in which it was used. I think Shane McGowans comment on it is fair enough, I think most people hearing it now presumably would have only the homophobic reference for that word (though I do wonder if they'd even have that, it feels antiquated to me even as a slur) but the idea we can't discuss things and call them by their proper names and have our attitude judged on context is troubling to me.

naturalyoghurtmuncher · 16/12/2020 11:26

'And the boys of the NYPD choir were singing Galway Bay.... and the bells were ringing out for Christmas Days'

Love that song. She is BU , teens are so entitled these days.

Ask her why this song is offensive and nobody cares about cardiB rapping about her vagina???

Weird double standard today...

naturalyoghurtmuncher · 16/12/2020 11:27

@pizzaandcats

I have obviously been making the words to this song up as I go on as I have just had to Google the use of the word slut in the song! I had no idea Confused I thought it was "old southern drunk" hahahaha
It's ' old slut on j*nk' 😬
berrygirlie · 16/12/2020 11:27

Ask her why this song is offensive and nobody cares about cardiB rapping about her vagina???
Weird double standard today...

Because WAP isn't a slur?

ancientgran · 16/12/2020 11:27

Are they also being taught about misogyny as well and how 'slut' is also not appropriate and disrespectful? Are slut walks disrespectful then?

D4rwin · 16/12/2020 11:28

Both equally offensive. Your husband lowered the tone. She didn't have to sink herself by using a misogynistic slur.

Mustbe3ormorecharacters · 16/12/2020 11:30

When I was at school we had a kid who transferred from America, we had a speaker who was very successful in their profession and when giving a talk mentioned when he was young people would be smoking a fag while training and this kid lost his shit, started throwing things around the class and screaming. Some people just can’t control their emotions, I would encourage your daughter to be more patient and less aggressive.

emilyfrost · 16/12/2020 11:32

Your daughter was in the wrong; her heads been filled with all the woke crap they give out at school now so you need to nip it in the bud and give her a sense of reality.

ItisRainingAgain · 16/12/2020 11:32

She’s just teening.

slashlover · 16/12/2020 11:33

I think that using the word in the song is debatable.

Someone saying "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say fggot anymore"* is not. Oh how sad that I can't use a slur anymore. Is he upset that he can't use the N word anymore too?

berrygirlie · 16/12/2020 11:37

Your daughter was in the wrong; her heads been filled with all the woke crap they give out at school now so you need to nip it in the bud and give her a sense of reality.

I'm assuming you're female, so I guess by that logic you don't mind being called a cnt or a whre? Because it's not fair to only care about the oppressed groups that you fit into specifically. There are words that aren't appropriate in society because they are offensive (whether anti-female slurs should be banned is another subject) so let's not chalk all of that up to "woke crap".

(And for the record I'm not calling you either of those things, but "woke crap" is part of the reason why I would never find that acceptable to call you, same with homophobic or racist slurs)

Bibidy · 16/12/2020 11:38

It's great that prejudice is less acceptable than ever nowadays, and that it's getting called out, but it seems to have also led to young people - like your DD - thinking that they are justified in being horribly rude to people who mention any of the unspeakable words or opinions, no matter the context in which they are discussed.

It's like as long as they are speaking out against the 'right' things they can say or do whatever they like, no matter how rude they are being, or the fact that their attitudes are actually just as nasty as the words they are fighting against.

Your DD was out of line here but then she is also young. She will gradually come to understand that she can't react that way to people and also that people won't always share her opinion.

PS. I'm surprised how many people are saying that fa*t wasn't a slur when the song was written. It was otherwise it wouldn't be in the song!! The argument is more that both insults are spoken by characters as part of the story-telling, it's not just sung as a normal word. I think it's fine to bleep them both out now, they're not acceptable to hear on the radio.

Bibidy · 16/12/2020 11:41

@slashlover

I think that using the word in the song is debatable.

Someone saying "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say fggot anymore"* is not. Oh how sad that I can't use a slur anymore. Is he upset that he can't use the N word anymore too?

I think it's pretty clear he means within the context of this particular song, not that he wants to go around saying it himself.
Mrsjayy · 16/12/2020 11:41

It's ' old slut on jnk' 😬*

Such a warm hearted song isn't it Shock

PrivateD00r · 16/12/2020 11:43

Your dd was right and your Dh was wrong (imo). However your dd needs a calm and rational discussion around how to acceptably express her views.

GwenSpiderverse · 16/12/2020 11:43

Your teen was busy teening.
Christ, they are exhausting.

RealisticSketch · 16/12/2020 11:46

The song is a fictional story set in a different time. We don't clean up the world retrospectively, and sometimes seeing them cast in a modern light shows them for what they are and is educational. So I don't think censorship is a good thing and that's a philosophical discussion all of its own. But this is the current mood and she is obviously tuned in. She called him a slur so she is in pot-kettle-black territory. None of that is useful though, opening it up to a conversation might be though, but that means people need to climb down from their soapboxes long enough to roll the idea around.

Waveysnail · 16/12/2020 11:46

Shes a teen. Typical teen blunt deliver. She can disagree with her dads opinion but there is no need to be rude. I would put consequences in place for calling her dad names

viques · 16/12/2020 11:47

Objecting to faggot while using the word twat !

Does she even know what twat means?

DietCokePolice · 16/12/2020 11:47

Would your DH be ok with the N word as long as it “wasn’t being used as a slur”?

I think you should support your daughter. Yes she should learn to argue without resorting to personal insults, but it’s probably fairly distressing to realise your father’s a bigot tbf. Your daughter could well be LGBTQ.

Spittingchestnuts · 16/12/2020 11:48

It's great that prejudice is less acceptable than ever nowadays, and that it's getting called out, but it seems to have also led to young people - like your DD - thinking that they are justified in being horribly rude to people who mention any of the unspeakable words or opinions, no matter the context in which they are discussed.

Totally this! There isn't a straight YABU or YANBU decision to cast here as they were both in the wrong.

I think your dh could in future usefully refrain from expressing out loud certain thoughts that come in to his head. One is often walking on eggshells with teens as it is, there is no need to add extra fuel to the fire.

WhereverIGoddamnLike · 16/12/2020 11:49

Cant wd just reclaim the word as it was intended. A faggot is a pile of sticks and branches wrapped up together to be thrown into fires as fuel.

emilyfrost · 16/12/2020 11:50

I'm assuming you're female, so I guess by that logic you don't mind being called a cnt or a whre? Because it's not fair to only care about the oppressed groups that you fit into specifically.

berrygirlie I don’t have a problem with the words cunt or whore; using them myself or being called them. They’re just words.