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AIBU?

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Original poster

Was DD overreacting?

370 replies

christmascaroller · 16/12/2020 10:40

Last night we (DH, DD15 and I) were watching something with Fairytale of New York in, and DH said "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say f*ggot anymore". DD told him that it was a slur (which I don't disagree with btw) and that he shouldn't say it even in this context. He said that it was perfectly fine for him to say as he wasn't being homophobic. My AIBU is this: when he said that it was fine to say, DD said "just admit that you're a bigotted twat instead of wasting your breath"!! I told DD that this was unacceptable but she stormed out and hasn't spoken to us since.

YABU: her reaction was perfectly justified
YANBU: she shouldn't be using language like that over a word

OP posts:
TatianaBis · 16/12/2020 12:17

Why would anyone want to say f*ggot?

I don’t imagine your DD’s comment comes out of nowhere. So I’d guess this isn’t the first or only comment he’s made that’s got up her nose.

Perhaps she has higher standards about men than you do.

LindaEllen · 16/12/2020 12:18

**for her father, sorry.

AryaStarkWolf · 16/12/2020 12:22

@81Byerley

This is really complicated. My husband and I had a discussion about the words of the song, and also about songs we were taught as children, and couldn't decide why we thought it was ok to sing the original words to Fairy tale of New York, when we wouldn't sing songs we sang when we were children, which included a sea shanty (Johnny Come Down to Hilo) which includes the words "A big buck n*r with his sea boots on". We were both taught that in Junior school as part of our music lessons in the 1950s-60s. The fact is that it's easy to make excuses for something we love, such as FT of NY, and want to still hear the original. As for the use of "F*t in the song, I have mixed feelings. I hate it as a homophobic slur, but in the context of a woman using it to her boyfriend in a drunken tirade, at a time that has passed, I want it to be OK, if you see what I mean.
I would say the difference is the rhyme was using the N word as normal language, like it's OK to call that guy "A big buck n**r" where as in Fairytale of New York it's quite clear that these are two bitter people using offensive words to hurt the other person, if that makes sense?

It's kind like the book IT and that controversial part at the end involving a child orgy of sorts. Stephen King said he couldn't understand why people were outraged by this part in a book about murdering children. The difference was the murdering children part wasn't glorified or normalised , it was a bad thing that the characters were trying to stop where as the orgy scene involving children was put forward as some sort of therapeutic, powerful experience

WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo · 16/12/2020 12:28

I got a Facebook ban for discussing ' faggots ' in a slow cooker group........as in the fresh ones bought from the butcher's. Not those brains nasties. Some idiot must have reported me.

Either ways it wasn't a homophobic slur when the song was released and isn't really used as one in the UK. So your DD needs to do some fact finding when she gets down off her high horse and apologise to her dad for calling him a twat.

unmarkedbythat · 16/12/2020 12:30

Your DD sounds decent.

Why would anyone lament not being able to use a homophobic slur unless they were indeed a bigoted twat?

GabsAlot · 16/12/2020 12:30

i wold have been grounded for calling my df a twat whatever the context

SantasBritchesSpelleas · 16/12/2020 12:32

I'd have had nine bells beaten out of me for calling my dad a twat, but I'm glad we've moved on from those days.

unmarkedbythat · 16/12/2020 12:32

Either ways it wasn't a homophobic slur when the song was released and isn't really used as one in the UK

You honestly think that the word was not used as a homophobic slur in 1987? Really?

ErickBroch · 16/12/2020 12:32

Ha! Love it Grin

Jocasta2018 · 16/12/2020 12:34

Play her 'Money for Nothing' by Dire Straits.....

AryaStarkWolf · 16/12/2020 12:35

@unmarkedbythat

Either ways it wasn't a homophobic slur when the song was released and isn't really used as one in the UK

You honestly think that the word was not used as a homophobic slur in 1987? Really?

Yeah tbf they have never denied what it meant either
GabsAlot · 16/12/2020 12:37

so being grounded is the same as being hit

ok then

GabsAlot · 16/12/2020 12:38

and being offended for others seems to be the cool thing to do these days

it must be so draining

SantasBritchesSpelleas · 16/12/2020 12:41

I don't think it was as well-known in the UK as a slur in 1987, but the song is set in the USA.

Wishihadanalgorithm · 16/12/2020 12:42

But her father is being a bigoted twat. I also have an issue with the word ‘slut’ and think both should be changed in the song for the modern audience.

I think the word in question was more accepted when this song was written but it isn’t now. Just like other words associated with race are no longer acceptable.

Your daughter was rude, I accept. It would have been better to have simply called her father a bigot and have been done with it.

WarrickDavisAsPlates · 16/12/2020 12:43

@unmarkedbythat

Your DD sounds decent.

Why would anyone lament not being able to use a homophobic slur unless they were indeed a bigoted twat?

My thoughts exactly.

Your DH was saying its a shame he can't use a homophobic slur, your Dd pointed out that it's a slur and is offensive, your DH tries to justify wanting to slurs.

I think your DH should have a look at himself and really think about why he would want to use offensive words in the first place.

Dd shouldn't go straight to name calling and shouting but in my opinion and experience when you are offended and upset by what someone says it's hard to bite your tongue and expecting her to not react is holding her to a higher standard than your DH.

My mums husband is the same, says offensive things and expects not to be called out on it because as our elder we should respect him even though he refuses to show respect to anyone else.

berrygirlie · 16/12/2020 12:44

*and being offended for others seems to be the cool thing to do these days

it must be so draining*

Except the people who that slur is directed to (usually gay men) have expressed that it is an offensive slur. Usually empathy would dictate respecting that wish, given heterosexuals are not the ones who are negatively affected by it's usage directly.

Mrsjayy · 16/12/2020 12:45

In 1987 we knew she was calling him gay as an insult

SoupDragon · 16/12/2020 12:47

I think Radio 1 have blurred out "slut" on the version they play.

TerribleLizard · 16/12/2020 12:57

I think it’s a bit ridiculous where your daughter can’t say twat, but her father can swear all he likes. Twat is mainly used as a general swear, like dickhead etc, and that’s how the word is used in the song, it’s just that the wider context is that it is now really only used as a homophobic slur, when the meaning of the song is just calling the guy a dick. It’s not that you’re not allowed to say it, it’s that it’s no longer used like a generic swear word, and only as a homophobic slur, and the less hateful meaning isn’t really there anymore, so it doesn’t work in the song anymore.

It’s like the Fawlty Towers scene that was cut. It wasn’t cut because of some sort of censorship, it was cut because language has changed, and the racial slurs in the scene have gone from being everyday language, to being more on a par with saying cunt, when it comes to age warnings. You’re perfectly free to use the word cunt in your sitcom, but it won’t be classified as a U or PG, so streaming services will target it differently, and families won’t watch it with young children around. The scene wasn’t important to the storyline, so they just cut it and got the rating they wanted.

Twat is used like people use idiot. Just like crap and shit means rubbish. They’re fairly innocuous really. You might not want to daughter to use coarse language, but if your the father of a teenager and you are arguing that everyone should be able to say anything, then really you’re asking to be called a few expletives.

BreatheAndFocus · 16/12/2020 12:59

Does she use “queer”? I find that just as much of a slur.

She will know people at school who are gay, Pan etc and having her dad make these kind of remarks will really upset her as it's disrespectful to people she knows and to her generation in general

Yes, because teens invented sexuality and no-one was ever gay or bisexual before 2001.

OP, it depends if your DH was winding her up or has form for this, but her reaction was immature, rude and OTT. She wouldn’t even have known it was a slur except for the Americanisation of the Internet. (Faggots are food here and a fag is a cigarette, etc)

Hoppinggreen · 16/12/2020 12:59

I probably wouldn’t have used the word but some of our teens do take it too far. Mine was very upset when I said the name of a well know Austrian action movie star out loud in a restaurant as apparently it might sound like I was using a racial slur
Obviously we discussed said actor for most of the evening until DD was able to get over herself

blissfulllife · 16/12/2020 13:01

Welcome to my world lol. I'm constantly being told off and corrected for things like this. For example few months back the bbc white news reader who used the N racial slur in a sentence. She wasn't calling anyone it. She got totally bashed for it and I said I have no idea why she's getting so much negativity. Oh boy did my girls give me a good dose of education!. I called Robbie Williams silky shirt on the Jonathon Ross show at the weekend "a bit gay" ....put right back in my box.

Honestly I've never ever considered myself homophobic or racist. But I appreciate my children educating me when I slip up with this micro racism etc that I don't even notice I'm doing. I want them to educate me! I never want to offend anyone unintentionally . Our children's generation will make massive strides in the world to rid racism, homophobia etc. I can see the passion in them for acceptance and equality.

I draw the line at my youngest telling me off for misgendering cats on tik tok though 😂

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 16/12/2020 13:04

Faggot is an old Irish/Scots word for a bum or lazy person and it's used in this sense in the song.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/fans-defend-fagot-after-christmas-13695399

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:faggot

MustardMitt · 16/12/2020 13:05

@SoupDragon

I think Radio 1 have blurred out "slut" on the version they play.
It has been omitted from the versions I heard on Radio 1 and Radio City today (I was only in the car for 40 mins and heard it twice!)

Slut is gone.
Cheap lousy faggot is now cheap and you’re haggard.

Your daughter isn’t wrong, but she expressed herself in a totally normal teenage way. It costs nothing for your husband to not use the word. It’s a bit like a boyfriend I had once who was ‘allowed’ to call people Paki as he had a Paki friend Hmm

I don’t think words should be censured in general debate. Although saying that I can’t even bring myself to type the N word - which I also hate being used in songs.