Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was DD overreacting?

370 replies

christmascaroller · 16/12/2020 10:40

Last night we (DH, DD15 and I) were watching something with Fairytale of New York in, and DH said "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say f*ggot anymore". DD told him that it was a slur (which I don't disagree with btw) and that he shouldn't say it even in this context. He said that it was perfectly fine for him to say as he wasn't being homophobic. My AIBU is this: when he said that it was fine to say, DD said "just admit that you're a bigotted twat instead of wasting your breath"!! I told DD that this was unacceptable but she stormed out and hasn't spoken to us since.

YABU: her reaction was perfectly justified
YANBU: she shouldn't be using language like that over a word

OP posts:
grapewine · 16/12/2020 13:06

@FlyingByTheSeatof

DH was being a bigoted twat so you should be focusing on that as well
Yep.

I guess it's easier not to have that discussion though. But he was. She was right.

Zilla1 · 16/12/2020 13:08

There are fewer things in life more certain of their glorious 'rightness' in all circumstances than teenagers, except perhaps some politicians and MN posters.

ncbby · 16/12/2020 13:08

You are comfortable shacking up with someone who uses gets upset about not being allowed to use bigoted slurs and you wonder if your daughter having a visceral reaction is the problem? Sort out the root and then deal with the branches.v

TerribleLizard · 16/12/2020 13:09

Exactly @PrawnofthePatriarchy in the song, no one is using a homophobic slur, but for today’s audience the association with the slur is too strong. In the same way, Isis is an Egyptian god, and a byword for female beauty and stateliness - the sort of name jewellers would use to name a necklace or ring. Not now the name has other associations, though.

Veterinari · 16/12/2020 13:12

DH said "isn't it ridiculous that they can't say f*ggot anymore".

The issue is not that your DH used the word.

The issue is that he doesn't recognise it as a slur, and thinks homophobic language is acceptable.

That makes him a bigot. Your DD is correct.

MarahCarey · 16/12/2020 13:14

@Lelophants

To be fair to her, would you accept the N word being used in a song even if the song was an old song?

Times change and it just shows generational shift. Try and be understanding but also explain that what she is saying is also a slur.

Also does dh have a habit of saying these things? It might have been a build up of annoyance at some of his attitudes.

This ^^
Rainbowandscarlett · 16/12/2020 13:20

I remember telling my (then 14) daughter what when I was younger we’d think nothing of going to the p*ki shop on our way home
She got on her high horse about it
I explained it was a term used back in the day (Along with black mans pinch) but (rightly) isn’t what you’d say today
She almost melted when her grandad said he wasn’t going to the shop at the end of his road as it was ran by ‘black bastards’
She put him in his place and told him that it wasn’t acceptable in this day and age-he disagreed and they left it at that
Not a chance would she have called him names-even though granddad was in the wrong (but he is a product of his generation-I’m not saying he’s ok to say that,just he didn’t move with the times)
Oh to be a teen now-it felt like I could never say the right thing without someone getting huffy about it and having to say sorry for some wrong word

TatianaBis · 16/12/2020 13:21

[quote PrawnofthePatriarchy]Faggot is an old Irish/Scots word for a bum or lazy person and it's used in this sense in the song.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/fans-defend-fagot-after-christmas-13695399

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:faggot[/quote]
Except that when Shane McGowan discusses its use here, he doesn’t say that was the sense intended. He just says that the character that says it in the song isn’t supposed to be a nice person. It’s not clear what sense he meant it originally.

Either in 1987 the use of f word as insult to gay people was commonplace.

www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/fairytale-ending-shane-macgowan-explains-faggot-reference-in-christmas-song-1.3723622

TatianaBis · 16/12/2020 13:21

Either way ^^

TeapotCollection · 16/12/2020 13:22

I wouldn’t speak to my Dad like that even now, let alone 30 odd years ago when I was her age

chickenchowmeins · 16/12/2020 13:23

Right so he's homophobic and you're wanting to know if she overreacted to him being homophobic? Yeah okayy Confused

BiBabbles · 16/12/2020 13:23

Neither of them come across very well, but I don't think either was really trying to have a dialogue to change the other's mind. They were just putting their thoughts out there, blunt as they were, and they clashed.

There are better ways for your DH to put across he doesn't like songs being edited that way something that there is argument for on both sides other than "it's ridiculous they can't say..." which never really ends well and then trying to act like his intent is all that matters. There are better ways for your daughter to discuss she thinks there are better ways for him to do that than calling him a bigotted twat.

How you handle that is up to your family dynamic and whether you think either is up for actually talking about it or whether this is something that needs to be dropped, at least for a time.

Brefugee · 16/12/2020 13:25

your DH is wrong, IMO, but blimey can't you remember what it was like to be 15 and full of passion and sure that all adults are wrong all the time?

She's 15 so instead of implying that she's wrong or whatever, why not have a discussion about it? The simple fact is that these days, agree with it or not, use of words like that F-word, the N-word and other attitudes are not in keeping with the zeitgeist.

You can rest happy to know that if she has children, she may be having the same issues with her future 15 year old DC

slashlover · 16/12/2020 13:31

I probably wouldn’t have used the word but some of our teens do take it too far. Mine was very upset when I said the name of a well know Austrian action movie star out loud in a restaurant as apparently it might sound like I was using a racial slur

What was the actor? I've googled Australian actors and there's not one I can see who sounds like a slur.

berrygirlie · 16/12/2020 13:32

Arnold Schwarzenegger. @slashlover

Love51 · 16/12/2020 13:32

A gentle chat that you are worried about her internalised misogyny is in order. She might appreciate it more couched in language like that.
And a separate adults only reflection session for DH. It reminds me of something my small kids do, where they try to get away with saying a swear word that also means something else, when they are basically saying words because they can (hell, damn/dam, and bloody being particular favourite, they haven't discovered either the sweaty or legitimate uses of bitch yet).

ancientgran · 16/12/2020 13:33

Your daughter isn’t wrong, but she expressed herself in a totally normal teenage way. It costs nothing for your husband to not use the word. It’s a bit like a boyfriend I had once who was ‘allowed’ to call people Paki as he had a Paki friend I had a colleague who was from Pakistan. He found it amusing when people called him a Paki (it happened alot, we did a job where getting abuse wasn't unusual, with me it was being ginger and freckled) He said Paki meant something good, I can't remember now but it was something like honourable and he said he didn't care how they meant it, to him it was a good thing. I never figured out the positive of being ginger but when I was 4 apparently got upset when other kids commented on my freckles. My dad told me they were jealous as it was the marks where the angels kissed me so freckle insults have never bothered me, if my dad said freckles were good they were good.

slashlover · 16/12/2020 13:33

Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Ah, I read it as Australian, not Austrian.

TerribleLizard · 16/12/2020 13:33

@TatianaBis I think the fact that they’ve changed the lyric makes it clear that the meaning of the word wasn’t intended to be a homophobic slur. The characters aren’t portrayed as good people, and if they wanted her to be using a homophobic slur, it would have stayed. More likely she was just meant to be using a generic sweary insult, which the original lyric doesn’t really read as, anymore, so they changed it.

LadyOfTheImprovisedBath · 16/12/2020 13:35

South park did an entire episode on changing meaning of the word f*ggot with town folk getting riled by and Cartman giving a little story lesson of the word and how for them it was not longer the same slur the town folk were assuming.

Alexa won't let me add pork f*ggots to the shopping list - I have to spelling it out letter by letter.

I think YANBU - as the word clearly upset her the way to deal with that wasn't her reaction and frankly at 15 I'd expect better manners even if she was upset.

ancientgran · 16/12/2020 13:38

I just reread the OP, did he mean it's a shame they can't "say" it in the song or say it generally? In the song I agree with him, in general I agree with her. Maybe he meant it one way and he took it the other?

5foot5 · 16/12/2020 13:39

I got a Facebook ban for discussing ' faggots ' in a slow cooker group........as in the fresh ones bought from the butcher's. Not those brains nasties. Some idiot must have reported me.

Idiot indeed! I had heard of those sorts of faggots long, long before I knew it was also a word used as a homophobic slur. What is one meant to call that particular meat concoction?

berrygirlie · 16/12/2020 13:41

What is one meant to call that particular meat concoction?

Minced off-cut meatballs is the Wikipedia definition, could probably use that as an alternative if that was one's preference.

TatianaBis · 16/12/2020 13:42

[quote TerribleLizard]@TatianaBis I think the fact that they’ve changed the lyric makes it clear that the meaning of the word wasn’t intended to be a homophobic slur. The characters aren’t portrayed as good people, and if they wanted her to be using a homophobic slur, it would have stayed. More likely she was just meant to be using a generic sweary insult, which the original lyric doesn’t really read as, anymore, so they changed it.[/quote]
Not at all. They’ve changed the lyric as it’s highly offensive. You can’t tell from that what sense they intended originally.

There’s no such thing as ‘anymore’ f- was a common gay insult in 1987.

nicky7654 · 16/12/2020 13:43

@Timeforabiscuit Brilliant lol

Swipe left for the next trending thread