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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That's a first. Accused of transphobia. WIBU? Screenshots.

537 replies

DelvingintoInsanity · 27/10/2020 16:55

A group on facebook that I'm in.

Have never been accused of transphobia before and like to think I'm a tolerant and inclusive person. Quite socked and wondering if I am in the wrong here?

Clearly, I'm now close from being banned from the group. Just for context, it's a writing group.

That's a first. Accused of transphobia. WIBU? Screenshots.
That's a first. Accused of transphobia. WIBU? Screenshots.
That's a first. Accused of transphobia. WIBU? Screenshots.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
NRatched · 27/10/2020 18:30

YANBU. But this is unsurprising. 'You are not correct in this' when you state only female people can give birth is...Confused Blathering on about intersex people, again as if they are a third sex or whatever rather than still male or female. And DSDs are nowt to do with transpeople anyway, as we know. Smoke and mirrors. Same bullshit, different day. Would love to know what on earth inspires people to come out with such (lady)bollocks.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/10/2020 18:30

@AnyOldPrion

The problem with everyone keeping their heads down, is that we’re very much at risk of this stuff being written into law.

Lots of women from Mumsnet (and other places, but Mumsnet was significant) recently objected to a government proposal that would have allowed any man to sign a statutory declaration and change his legal sex to female.

He would then be largely treated exactly as if he was female, including being processed as a woman if he was sent to prison for rape.

Spot on. Also, if I've understood this correctly, the NHS database doesn't have the capacity to record both gender and sex, so if someone asks for a different gender to be used, it's treated as it it's sex, and that person will be invited to the standard health screening for their sex, which has obvious consequences for their health and also for NHS budgets. Transwomen invited for cervical smears and breast screening, transmen not invited. Transwomen are biological males and will never need smear tests, no matter what medical treatment they've had. Breast implants don't develop cancer. Transmen who still have their breasts and cervices are still at risk of cancer but aren't getting the screening unless they are very clued up and ask about it.

There was a tragic case in the US where a transman went to the hospital emergency department with stomach pains. The nurse didn't grasp that the patient was female so didn't ask about pregnancy, assumed she was dealing with an obese male. The transman was pregnant and had gone into labour. The baby was stillborn. This is an obvious risk of not using clear, easily understood language about one's biological sex.

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/05/16/pregnant-transgender-man-births-stillborn-baby-hospital-missed-labor-signs/3692201002/

ChrisOnTheBeach · 27/10/2020 18:30

You're not a transphobe @DelvingintoInsanity Leave the group before you're banned. What a bunch of silly bints!

Feministicon · 27/10/2020 18:31

Apparently it’s also transphobic to say only women have periods

AngeloMysterioso · 27/10/2020 18:32

God, intersex people must be sick to fucking death of being dragged into this BS.

MintyCedric · 27/10/2020 18:34

The problem with everyone keeping their heads down, is that we’re very much at risk of this stuff being written into law.

Absolutely. Whilst I keep my head down to a degree in relation to my writing (which is under a pseudonym and published online), in that I try not to get involved in bunfights with other writers, I will state my case.

And the 'real me' is considerably more outspoken!

Maze76 · 27/10/2020 18:34

Nope, nothing unreasonable as far as I’m concerned

PanamaPattie · 27/10/2020 18:35

It's all so exhausting.

PatriciaPerch · 27/10/2020 18:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LouiseTrees · 27/10/2020 18:37

Guessing you are American.

DeaconBoo · 27/10/2020 18:38

Lots of us on FWR thought exactly the same as you OP! It's one of the topics we've been discussing for the last few years - if you've heard that MN is transphobic it's because of that (saying that while trans people are of course valid, biological sex is different from gender and at times this is important to recognise).

Simply that.

Of course there are lots of tangents and related topics and differences of opinion, but that's the basic summary.

Purpledaisychain · 27/10/2020 18:38

@JuliaJohnston
It comes across as a bit blunt, but that is just a result of written text, not OP's fault. Not the way I read it, but the way some people could. The 2and post made it clear that OP is not transphobic. When you are engaging in these kind of discussions online, you have to spell everything out because there are people just desperate to pick posts apart and see prejudism everywhere.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/10/2020 18:39

@AngeloMysterioso

God, intersex people must be sick to fucking death of being dragged into this BS.
I'm sure of this. I saw a tweet the other day from a woman who was diagnosed with a DSD in her teens. She was female on her birth certificate and had had no reason to think she wasn't female until puberty struck and she didn't start having periods. On investigation, it turned out she didn't have a uterus. Her doctor's response, after imparting this devastating, life-changing news, was to ask her what pronouns she should use for her.
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/10/2020 18:40

@LouiseTrees

Guessing you are American.
I'm guessing the bearded man was American.
Gertrudethewise · 27/10/2020 18:44

Lmao
If someone says "transman" it's very obvious they were born as female. You don't have to remind everyone or bring it up.
Love,
Gertrude xx

Madvixen · 27/10/2020 18:44

@Feministicon

Apparently it’s also transphobic to say only women have periods
Or to use the phrase "mother" (thanks a bunch Sands - not)
StandWitch · 27/10/2020 18:48

The original post before 'gay trans men have kids all the time is missing', so it's hard to judge true context.

However, 'that's because they are biologically female' is a slightly unnecessary possibly goady statement, even though unless the ensuing reply about chromosomes and biology is that of a blithering idiot.

It's a bit confusing because on the one hand we're supposed to politely pretend that transmen are the same as men, which is fine when it comes to saying 'hi John' or whatever to them, but on the other it's very frequently followed up with this nonsense, so....

terfinginthevoid · 27/10/2020 18:48

Don't worry about being called transphobic. I think, much in the way these people have redefined the word 'women' to mean 'men and women', they have redefined the word 'transphobic' to mean 'has a brain and is capable of using it'.
List [[https://wingsoverscotland.com/everything-is-transphobic/?fbclid=IwAR0RXbU2Pz6wXVlQ3Y9JyXJX_jkpCfI0pRrtCmjIBKfd3EL9ppWK-Csle0M here]] of all the things that are transphobic.

BrassicaRabbit · 27/10/2020 18:49

I dutifully "educated myself" a couple of years ago and learned that some people* who push trans activism will only accept complete capitulation to specific dogma, and that dogma grows quickly. It is not enough OP, that you refer to transwomen as women etc. The phrase "female reproductive system" has been decreed transphobic for quite some time now. I think this is because initially many women, such as yourself, were happy for the word "woman" to refer to a gender identity, as they could still use "female" to distinguish themselves from males at times of importance, such as healthcare or crime. I have learnt that there is no acceptable scenario for the class of female humans to distinguish themselves from the class of male humans. Thus female prisons and crime statistics now include some males and it is transphobic to request a female to conduct your breast screening.

*Note to moderators and also to the people who monitor mumsnet with a view to shutting down discussions relating to women's rights: I do not mean all trans people here. Far from it. In my experience most of the people silencing speech and issuing threats in the name of trans rights are not trans. There are plenty of trans people who are appalled by what is being done in their name and who are also treated with the same amount of vitriol.

LunchBoxPolice · 27/10/2020 18:49

I just laugh react comments like that, winds them up.

accessorizequeen · 27/10/2020 18:50

@AnyOldPrion that Twitter thread was brilliant. And with references! 💪🏻

rashalert · 27/10/2020 18:51

They're more to be pitied to be laughed at.

Mind you, I do laugh too.

Chloemol · 27/10/2020 18:52

I would just post something along the lines of what a poster said about about x and X chromosomes, that most mixed chromosomes she mentions are sterile

That you are disappointed about the blind wokeness of the group and the intolerance shown to someone’s valid viewpoint, that you don’t wish to be associated with someone with such a bullying attitude

And then leave the group and then get on with it

You did nothing wrong

DeaconBoo · 27/10/2020 18:53

@Gertrudethewise

Lmao If someone says "transman" it's very obvious they were born as female. You don't have to remind everyone or bring it up. Love, Gertrude xx
How patronising. It may be obvious to many, but many others genuinely think a trans man is a MTF trans person.

And there have been cases posted here that prove you are wrong about "not having to bring it up" - it resulted in death when it wasn't brought up or made clear. But carry on with your ableism, why don't you.

CaraDuneRedux · 27/10/2020 18:55

The original post before 'gay trans men have kids all the time is missing', so it's hard to judge true context.

OP's since been back to fill in the context. A woman writer was asking for input on a sci fi story she was writing in which men could literally get pregnant. (It's quite a common trope in sci fi and some subgenres of homoerotic fanfiction.) Cue woke beard making pissy remark about transmen - which (being biological females, who of course can get pregnant in the normal, real world way) was not, one presumes what the aspiring sci fi author was writing about.