Would you split over this? AIBU not to?

[rainbowiris]

Long time lurker but first time poster so be a bit gentle with me please! Sorry this ended up being a bit long but I'd appreciate any advice.

DH and I generally have a good relationship, get on well, still plenty to talk about even 17 years in. Two teenage DC, we have our ups and downs but generally our relationship is pretty solid. However, he is completely shit with money. We both have ok-paid jobs now although I earn more than him and always have (we actually do the same job now though). When I met him, he had a number of debts (already with collection agents etc), which I helped him to sort out and pay off. He has since, a number of times over the years we've been together, periodically (probably about 4 times) run up credit card debts which we've ended up getting loans to pay off. Not huge amounts each time, a couple of thousand - enough for me to be really angry but not divorce him over it if that makes sense. I ended up taking complete control of the finances after we'd been together a few years as it became obvious he wasn't going to be able to manage things like leaving enough money in to cover direct debits, and he willingly gets his wage paid into the joint account, with me then transferring him back his half of whatever's left after everything's paid out.

Each time the credit card thing happened he promised it will never happen again and for a while it's always ok, apart from having debts to pay off, which sent us into a bit of a debt spiral each month and ending up using our joint credit card more than we should. A couple of years ago we moved to a different area which led to a couple of years of living frugally as moving was an expensive business but we had to do it at that point for various school/job related reasons. Our financial situation eased up this summer when we were able to switch to a cheaper mortgage deal and refinanced our debts with a clear plan to have everything paid off within five years, this new financial situation also freeing us up from the cycle of being in debt each month as we have more money to live on. It took me a long time of researching financial options and in general I spend a lot of time each month sorting the money out. I felt like a huge weight was lifted when everything had got sorted and there was actually enough money to pay for everything each month. We get about £75 each left to buy whatever we want with, which I know isn't loads but literally everything else is paid for and we have money in the joint account that can be used too (just requires a bit more discussion before an expensive purchase) so I manage fine with this amount.

Tonight I got home, picked up the post off my seat on the sofa and opened it, inadvertently opening a letter addressed to DH (it looked like a bill, and as I deal with all bills I didn't even check whose name was on the front). It was a letter from PayPal credit saying he's defaulted on a payment. He owes them £1700.

I asked him straight away, he said sorry and he's not spent it on anything much, just bits and bats (he cycles so buys bike bits a lot), and he's also got at least £500 on another card that he told me he'd got rid of.

Extra info: he had a bit of a shit childhood, ended up being brought up mainly by paternal grandparents. His dad would swan in every so often and take him out shopping. I think this has created some issues for him, he thinks credit cards are free money and that he can just buy what he likes when he likes. He can't seem to make the association that having these debts creates this ridiculous cycle of not being able to afford anything as we spend so much paying them back! He doesn't like waiting to buy things although will spend time researching to get the best deal in things he wants to buy, just doesn't like to wait to save up.

Aside from money, he's a good husband, great dad. Never looks at other women, mostly pretty thoughtful, does his share round the house. I don't want to divorce him but I'm really struggling to get past the fact he's lied AGAIN about this and put us up shit creek again with money, just when we'd got sorted. Part of me wants to kill him/kick him out/divorce him because he's had so many chances and if I keep bailing him out he'll keep doing it, part of me thinks it's not worth throwing a good relationship away over money, I'm 40 and not interested in starting again, I just want to settle down and enjoy what I've worked hard for, I can't afford to live here on my own and the kids need both parents.

AIBU to not kill him? What can I do? How do we pay off yet more money? I can't just leave him to it as he doesn't have enough left to pay it off himself. He's nearly 50 FFS, I thought we'd be sorted for money by now :(

Oh Rainbow, this is so difficult. He sounds like the perfect man/father. You can't divorce him. Imagine finding someone thats amazing with money but is shit as a husband and father. I just don't think its worth leaving him over.

I think you need to take full control of all money. Amy purchases has to go through you & he'll have to close down all accounts. Paypal, amazon, credit cards. Etc.

Realistically he won't change at this age, so you're looking at spending the rest of your life paying off debt and never having any financial security. Is this something you can accept for the sake of staying married to him?

Honestly, anything in his name id get him to arrange a debt management plan with - stepchange, a debt charity, can help arrange it and they negotiate with creditors to pay what he can afford to. Means he actually needs to take responsibility for paying it back this time.

I think you are unwillingly enabling this by swooping in and fixing it every time so he is then able to get more credit. Going into a dmp would trash his credit rating for 6 years but at least he then couldnt get any more credit in that time.

If that isnt an option then why dont you register him with credit karma which is a free credit report company and get them to send alerts to an email address whenever something appears on his credit file? At least you would then see if any accounts were opened up etc before he had the chance to run up debts on them. They have an app and its really simple. But you would basically be signing up to babysitting his finances once a month for the rest of your life.

I do all the finances in my relationship too but we have weekly/monthly conversations about what we are saving for/ need to pay each month, if we are skint and need to tighten our belts till payday etc so it feels like more a team effort rather than just one doing all the spending and the other worrying about it.

Others may disagree but i wouldnt divorce over money.

You keep bailing him out and he'll keep on doing it. If you don't divorce him then you need to be able to accept that this is how your life will be forever.

It isn't just that he's financially irresponsible. He's also not open and honest. He's devious, secretive, deceitful, untrustworthy. These aren't traits I could accept in a husbamd.

This is an issue your husband really needs to get to grips with, he's not a child and at 50 it's not unreasonable to expect him to understand how his decisions have affected your finances.

At this point you're making excuses for him, he lied to you, you said you'd both have a certain amount and he is using more than what you agreed. £1700 isn't something you can inadvertently spend without realising either. You may need to tell him some home truths about the situation and your current train of thought.

Make sure you're not using family money to pay off this debt by the way, because you'll be complicit in enabling him and he'll just do it again.

Hopefully it works out well for you.

Also look into a credit freeze, it stops anyone (including you) from opening new credit in your name, failing that a credit alert could work just as well.

I’d give him an ultimatum. He either finds himself help, (he needs proper counselling to sort out why he repeats this awful cycle and lies to his wife) or divorce. I’ve had similar issues with dh and this is what I did. He went to therapy, all issues were related to a shit childhood and therapy has helped enormously. I would not have stayed with him unless he sorted himself out, he’d had too many chances and I wasn’t prepared to live the rest of my life, waiting for the next shitstorm!

I couldn't live like this. There's the fact he is basically making you live more frugally so he can buy what he fancies. But for me the bigger issue would be the lying and constantly doubting if what you belive your financial situation to be is actually what is going on. Also as you get older you will have less capacity to recover from this. What if he does this when you are retired on fixed income or semi retired?

He'll have to sell his bike(s) then. Or whatever other random shit he's wasted £2k+ on.
Somehow, he needs to find the money.
YOU are not his banker, it is not up to YOU to pay HIS debt.

I don't think this is worth leaving him over but you shouldn't be sorting it out. Separate finances? Sorry do you own property together? That should be yours alone, if his debt is unsecured then it's his problem.
If he can't deal with that then I don't know.
Very unattractive a grown man who can't manage his cash.

Yes. Let him take responsibility and sort it out. Could he work overtime or get an evening job

I vote for the bike selling too. He needs less abstract consequences.

I think you need to set up access to each of the credit reference agencies so you can see all his credit. Then get some counselling to discuss this so he's aware of how close to divorce he is.

Thank you for the responses. I struggle with the idea of splitting up over money as he's otherwise fab and very supportive of me (which can't be easy as I'm a complete knob sometimes 🤣). I can ask him about counselling although his parents actually got back together when he was a young adult and he gets along well with them now, and he's always been quite keen not to drag up/revisit his past. Sadly I just think it's left him with this one (admittedly fairly major) flaw where he seems to keep repeating the same mistake.

I want to make him pay it back himself but can't see how he can do that on his £75 a month and still actually be able to live, in one of the past episodes I tried this and he ended up borrowing money again as he never had any at all left. I couldn't work full time and be left with nothing without becoming very resentful, even if it was my mistakes that had left me with nothing, if that even makes sense!

Thank you for the suggestions about places to contact for debt advice, credit alerts etc, I will look into those.

Well he won’t change so this is your life for as long as you live.

Is that what you want..

I would absolutely split up over this. I would struggle to trust someone who behaved in this way. It’s not an easy decision to make though. Hope you’re ok 💐

How many bikes does he have?

I'd be wanting to see the credit card statements to see exactly where the money has gone.

Were these existing credit cards, or would he have had to apply for new ones?

Could he earn more if he applied himself?

For an adult on a decent wage, £75 per month isn't a lot of money to have at your disposal. Are you over committed to savings plans/pensions that he's not really onboard with?

You’ve become his mummy, deeply unattractive. He creates a problem you fix it.

he’s also really mean & spiteful to you. think about it. you have €70 to spend. some makeup.& top or a meal out with friends. He gets 2k...its a total fuck you.

I don’t buy the shit childhood either, He’s 50, time for him to sort out his issues. (I had a horrible childhood).

As another poster also said what about retirement? is he thinking about this, hexhas worked more years than he has available to work.

Sell the shit & a second job.

Mil is in the same situation.

She took total control over the money. It solved the issue.

Fil has no control over spend and she gives him money when he needs to make a purchase and gives him something similar to pocket money without calling it pocket money for odd bits here and there.

He still likes to buy shit loads of rubbish however because MIL has control of all finances all major purchases are discussed.

She hates having to do this. She feels like she’s constantly watching over a child when it comes to spending. But it’s the only way she can ensure they don’t end up with huge bills.

I’m sorry you’re having to go through this OP

Ah I had one like this. He had a decent job but was just utterly, utterly irresponsible about money.

It was completely miserable not knowing what debts 'we' owed all over the place and never having any security. But the thing that got me in the end was the deceit and lies about it all.

I split with him and he never changed or even admitted that he could have held the slightest bit of blame.

Be prepared for this to be your life.

Personally I'd make him sell whatever he owns to pay off the debts. There need to be consequences for his actions, and unless he feels the pain, he simply will carry on, which at his age is ridiculous. He may be a great dad, husband etc. but in reality he's a LIAR!! What would have happened if you hadn't opened the letter? How much longer would he have carried on spending money that he hasn't got. Is there some way that you can stop him getting any form of credit, then give him his £75 a month in cash, and once it's gone it's gone. If he needs to buy something online, then you buy it on your card but he pays you out of HIS cash before you even place the order, so that there's no way he can wriggle his way out of paying. In his own way, he's manipulating you into bailing him out each time, and if it were me, however great a husband he is, he isn't trustworthy and would have to go. I couldn't move towards old age with a man I couldn't trust with our finances. Can you??

He sounds like the perfect man/father. You can't divorce him. Imagine finding someone thats amazing with money but is shit as a husband and father.

@WhoAmIWhoAreYou Whaaaat? Seriously, what did I just read?

He is sooo far from being the 'perfect' anything.

OP, I've been in a similar situation (but he very definitely wasn't a good H or father either).

2 issues:

• the utter, unrelenting exhaustion of debt & trying to manage money
• the lack of trust

It can only be fixed if he acknowledges he has a problem, is willing to seek help and then attends counselling with you to address trust issue.

Sadly I wouldn't feel optimistic about any of the above.

You taking control is not the answer. (I tried it). All the responsibility is then on you, he's infantilised & there's no equality. And anyway, if he's shit with money he'll find ways around any limits you put in place.

I'm sorry.

He really needs some help with his need to keep spending money that he doesn't have.
Shopping seems to give him a buzz. Maybe he's a shopaholic in that he feels good when when he's bought something.
He obviously doesn't need hundreds/thousands of pounds of cycling bits.
Your description of his childhood seems to confirm this.

He needs to know that his secret spending is directly affecting his family's future.
The problem is that , secretly, he knows you won't leave him for it and that you'll " make it better/go away."

He needs a wake up call.
This could be by telling him to get counselling and relinquishing all control of family finances and that your family life is in danger of being broken.

I couldn't live like this. He is deceiving you but you've been together a long time and is clearly a lovely man.

All good wishes to you OP.

Really feel for you, you seem to have your head switched on. Make him pay his own debts off out of his money that he's left with.

He needs counselling and proper debt advice. Does he understand that him not wanting to bring up the past/his own childhood issues may potentially cause issues for his own DC later down the line, and mistakes repeated?

It's a tough one for you OP, money isn't worth splitting up over but trust is.

Get him one of those bank accounts aimed at kids that needs to be topped up and doesn't give credit, has limits on online spending etc?

If you want to stay with him he needs help.
If he does not get help, this will continue. Over and over again.
Are you prepared for this to keep happening? More and more?
If not, you have to divorce, he will end up dragging you down