Would you split over this? AIBU not to?

[rainbowiris]

Long time lurker but first time poster so be a bit gentle with me please! Sorry this ended up being a bit long but I'd appreciate any advice.

DH and I generally have a good relationship, get on well, still plenty to talk about even 17 years in. Two teenage DC, we have our ups and downs but generally our relationship is pretty solid. However, he is completely shit with money. We both have ok-paid jobs now although I earn more than him and always have (we actually do the same job now though). When I met him, he had a number of debts (already with collection agents etc), which I helped him to sort out and pay off. He has since, a number of times over the years we've been together, periodically (probably about 4 times) run up credit card debts which we've ended up getting loans to pay off. Not huge amounts each time, a couple of thousand - enough for me to be really angry but not divorce him over it if that makes sense. I ended up taking complete control of the finances after we'd been together a few years as it became obvious he wasn't going to be able to manage things like leaving enough money in to cover direct debits, and he willingly gets his wage paid into the joint account, with me then transferring him back his half of whatever's left after everything's paid out.

Each time the credit card thing happened he promised it will never happen again and for a while it's always ok, apart from having debts to pay off, which sent us into a bit of a debt spiral each month and ending up using our joint credit card more than we should. A couple of years ago we moved to a different area which led to a couple of years of living frugally as moving was an expensive business but we had to do it at that point for various school/job related reasons. Our financial situation eased up this summer when we were able to switch to a cheaper mortgage deal and refinanced our debts with a clear plan to have everything paid off within five years, this new financial situation also freeing us up from the cycle of being in debt each month as we have more money to live on. It took me a long time of researching financial options and in general I spend a lot of time each month sorting the money out. I felt like a huge weight was lifted when everything had got sorted and there was actually enough money to pay for everything each month. We get about £75 each left to buy whatever we want with, which I know isn't loads but literally everything else is paid for and we have money in the joint account that can be used too (just requires a bit more discussion before an expensive purchase) so I manage fine with this amount.

Tonight I got home, picked up the post off my seat on the sofa and opened it, inadvertently opening a letter addressed to DH (it looked like a bill, and as I deal with all bills I didn't even check whose name was on the front). It was a letter from PayPal credit saying he's defaulted on a payment. He owes them £1700.

I asked him straight away, he said sorry and he's not spent it on anything much, just bits and bats (he cycles so buys bike bits a lot), and he's also got at least £500 on another card that he told me he'd got rid of.

Extra info: he had a bit of a shit childhood, ended up being brought up mainly by paternal grandparents. His dad would swan in every so often and take him out shopping. I think this has created some issues for him, he thinks credit cards are free money and that he can just buy what he likes when he likes. He can't seem to make the association that having these debts creates this ridiculous cycle of not being able to afford anything as we spend so much paying them back! He doesn't like waiting to buy things although will spend time researching to get the best deal in things he wants to buy, just doesn't like to wait to save up.

Aside from money, he's a good husband, great dad. Never looks at other women, mostly pretty thoughtful, does his share round the house. I don't want to divorce him but I'm really struggling to get past the fact he's lied AGAIN about this and put us up shit creek again with money, just when we'd got sorted. Part of me wants to kill him/kick him out/divorce him because he's had so many chances and if I keep bailing him out he'll keep doing it, part of me thinks it's not worth throwing a good relationship away over money, I'm 40 and not interested in starting again, I just want to settle down and enjoy what I've worked hard for, I can't afford to live here on my own and the kids need both parents.

AIBU to not kill him? What can I do? How do we pay off yet more money? I can't just leave him to it as he doesn't have enough left to pay it off himself. He's nearly 50 FFS, I thought we'd be sorted for money by now :(

Maybe you need to summon up some righteous anger and tell him straight what he’s actually doing to you and his kids. He needs to grasp that this is a massive problem and he can’t brush it off with oh yeah sorry & I’m going out now.

You say he's otherwise fab and very supportive of you. I think you're deluded to make such a statement.

He LIES to you. Regularly deceives you. That's a huge deal, if you can't trust the man you're married to you're on very rocky foundations.

He also knows how stressful all this debt is for you and yet he's quite happy to bring more debt and stress upon your shoulders - how is that the actions of a "supportive" husband? He's tying you up in chains of financial instability forever and thus ruining any future security you thought you'd have. That's horrible way to treat your partner.

I wouldn't have divorced him the first time either. Maybe not even the second time, but by the third time you've really got to wonder about yourself OP. Is your self esteem so low that you accept this level of blatant disregard from the man who should have your best interests at heart? He's ruining yours and your children's chance of a stable future, I had a father like this - they're scum in my book.

He could sell his bike.

Why is he out biking while you sit at home and worry yourself sick about this?

Paypal credit has a huge interest rate, close to 30%, his debt will be impossible to pay with his £75 a month.

Tell him to sell the bike bits. Problem solved in terms of the debt he has racked up, plus he might learn that doing this has consequences.

It’s not fair that you are shouldering all of the responsibility for his fuckwittery.

You say “we” paid it off but really HE spent it and YOU paid for it!

There’s been NO consequences for him for this irresponsibility. He needs to be hit where it hurts HIM! Bike stuff sold and no replacements, all luxury personal spending restricted - if he WAS a decent husband and father he’d offer to do this himself - has he EVER done that? Made sacrifices?

He’s maintained his lifestyle mostly, his expensive hobby and he knows he can because you’ll just keep bailing him out!

He’s too old to change significantly I agree, so you need to decide - are you willing to keep bailing him out? Which at this stage of your life could well include deferring or even cancelling your retirement?

What are you and the dc missing out on BECAUSE of his CHOICE to be irresponsible? Because while one can sympathise with his childhood issues at nearly 50 he can’t really use that as an excuse completely any more.

You controlling the finances is unlikely to work as he just does it all secretly!

Are you SURE the money is going where he says too?

He’s betrayed your trust - several times, that’s more than enough reason to leave him but I understand your reluctance.

How is he still getting credit? Is it because you keep bailing him out everytime.

@Someone9

You say he's otherwise fab and very supportive of you. I think you're deluded to make such a statement.

He LIES to you. Regularly deceives you. That's a huge deal, if you can't trust the man you're married to you're on very rocky foundations.

He also knows how stressful all this debt is for you and yet he's quite happy to bring more debt and stress upon your shoulders - how is that the actions of a "supportive" husband? He's tying you up in chains of financial instability forever and thus ruining any future security you thought you'd have. That's horrible way to treat your partner.

I wouldn't have divorced him the first time either. Maybe not even the second time, but by the third time you've really got to wonder about yourself OP. Is your self esteem so low that you accept this level of blatant disregard from the man who should have your best interests at heart? He's ruining yours and your children's chance of a stable future, I had a father like this - they're scum in my book.

All of the above.

At a minimum, he needs to sell the bikes and get a 2nd job.

This is really poor behavior on his part.
What is he going to do to address this?
It isn't your mess to sort out it is his.

As a minimum he needs therapy to address his spending and he needs to start selling stuff to pay off his debt.

He needs to come up with a plan because spending family money secretly on bikes for himself is profoundly selfish and irresponsible.

@Sobeyondthehills

How is he still getting credit? Is it because you keep bailing him out everytime.

Exactly. If you made him take responsibility for paying off the debt, he would have had his lines of credit removed by now. You are enabling him by cleaning up his mess instead of ensuring he clears it up himself.

The lying and deceit, for the nth time would be a killer for me.

What's his plan to sort it out OP?

It sounds like you semi-regularly rescue him from this situation, and here you are planning to do it again. I don't think you can expect different results if you keep doing the same thing.

Perhaps the way to get it to stop is to tell him it's up to him to sort it out, you don't expect it to affect your or DC's quality of life and you'll be getting regular credit reports to make sure it is getting sorted. Then just leave him to it.

a good husband, great dad. Never looks at other women, mostly pretty thoughtful, does his share round the house

Seriously WHY do women always give men medals and awards for doing the absolute bare minimum they are supposed to do in a relationship??? And how is he 'thoughtful' when he makes you keep paying off his debts, over and over, which he runs up because he's buying stuff for HIMSELF?

Parenting another adult like this is a relationship killer.

Look into the future and watch yourself doing this for another 30 years. Maybe finding out that he's done more things you don't know about - a family member was looking forward to finishing paying off their house. Long story short - the DH had remortgaged, lied to her, altered some paperwork - and the mortgage had another 10 years to run. Plus some debt he'd concealed from her.

She's worked hard (as has he) and they've nothing to show for it. Charming man. But they've got no retirement to look forward to and she's no idea how they'll manage. He even lied about seeing a psychologist for several years although he is now. Her biggest regret is not leaving him rather than repeatedly baling out someone who repeatedly deceived and lied to her.

You need to check his finance report monthly, clear score is free. That will show up credit accounts before they get into trouble and you can get them shut down.

I think if it's going to work out he needs to take responsibility for what he keeps doing. Is it compulsive or just unthinking? See if you can get couples counselling so there's a neutral person to help you.

This is so sad. How can he go out biking knowing he spent all that money on himself while you survive on £75 measly quid per month and shoulder the burden of managing finances?

Its not the money. Its the lack of respect. The assumption that everytime he clicked 'pay with credit' he knew deep down he shouldn't, but that you'd stay and make it ok. That you'd take another loan in your name, to bail him out. You're so deep in his financial shit hole, can you even leave? Or has the choice effectively been removed? Has he stolen your financial independence and freedom to choose by repeatedly being selfish?

This is not how you treat someone you love. Once... maybe even twice? But now you've got to stop trying to figure out whats wrong with him and ask yourself why you've allowed yourself to be treated like this. What would life look like if he had never have done this? Better lifestyle? Better options? Better wellbeing and peace of mind? Thats what its about. What he took from you everytime he repeatedly pressed buy and hid it from you.

He isn't going to change. This will keep happening. So the question is, can you live with it? Are you happy?

Personally I couldn't live with this, but then my DH probably does stuff that others couldn't deal with. We all make some compromises in marriage.

FWIW I do agree with PP's that this is a lack of respect on his part. He knows that you will be suffering the consequences of these decisions and yet he continues to do it. He is being extremely selfish.

Hi OP, hope you’re ok.

Do you both have pensions, own your own house? I think you need to urgently get your ducks in a row as MN is fond of saying.

It sounds like you may have to live with this for the rest of your life if you stay together.

Even if he does get therapy and sort himself out does he even have any pension for later in life or will you be supporting him then too.

I can only see freeedom from this by separating and maintaining a good relationship for the children.

As for the spending what he wants when he wants on cycling and 5en sitting back whilst you pay it back and ultimately end up with very little just makes me 😡

If you sorted out the mortgage earlier this summer, refinanced your debts and remortgaged, presumably he didn't have these debts at that point? So he's spent 2.2k in just a few months? That's how much money you had budgeted for yourself for 2 and a half years.

You say he sees credit cards as free money. But I don't see how that can possibly be true. He's seen you have to renegotiate and work out plans to pay it off. He's lied about getting rid of the card because he knew what he'd done and he wanted to do it again. He's just realised he's more likely to get what he wants if he asks for forgiveness rather than permission. Unless he's actually so low in IQ that he can barely function (which isn't the man you present to us) he does have to know it's not free money. He just chooses to ignore that and the way his spending more takes away from you and your DC.

So this is the 5th time he's got into debt and you're still with him????
Is this how you want to live your life forever? He wont change. How much longer will you be able to keep telling yourself he's a great husband and Dad? You've been enabling him and he's absolutely taking the P. You can't trust him.

As we see time and time again on these threads, apparently cyclist = selfish. ☹️ Sorry for your troubles OP, but as others have said you need to stand up for yourself. You deserve far better, do not be the Cinderella in this relationship.

This could have been me writing this a few years ago. Even down to the shitty childhood and expensive hobby (guitars in this case). When my husband ran up debt again for the 4th time it was an ultimatum- sort it out or divorce. If it happens again (which I hope it doesn't) he knows there are no more chances.

Things that turned the situation around:

1. Stepchange - making a plan with them
2. Doing CAP money course - this course was an eye opener for him as he'd never considered budgeting before
3. Using cash - based on CAPs advice but just withdrawing cash each week and identifying what it was for (food, fuel etc). He seems to find cash much easier to deal with because it is tangible.
4. Any un-budgeted purchases over £50 we had to agree together whilst getting finances under control

I do still manage all the finances but have now been debt free for over 2 years. we've had a savings goal and actually he's been quite motivated by watching that build up. He's also realised that by budgeting and sticking to it there is actually more money to go around for his hobby. And he doesn't have to worry about his card being declined now .

I totally remember the depths of despair and desperation I used to feel with all the burden of debt and really feel for you. I used to be so resentful that I had to manage the finances when I felt it should be shared between us both as adults. We both did CAP and it really helped to relieve me of feeling the burden of responsibility was all mine. It's a crappy place to be.

I hope you can get this sorted and he's motivated to make (and sustain) changes.

How many more times are you going to rescue him from his poor decisions? He's not on your team, he's selfish and irresponsible.