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Original poster

VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

999 replies

churchandstate · 03/12/2019 07:05

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

OP posts:
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7
DingDongSchadenfreudeOnHigh · 06/12/2019 12:58

Sounds like they also targeted girls because they were young and vulnerable regardless ....

Yes - but the investigation wasn't held up because of fears of accusations of racism (or anything else, as far as I'm aware)

CleansUpDragonPoo · 06/12/2019 23:29

An inspirational story of someone who battled through horrific abuse and neglect, perhaps it might give hope to some silent sufferers:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47821537

andyoldlabour · 07/12/2019 12:23

CleansUpDragonPoo

What a fantastic, terrible, awe inspiring and finally inspirational life story.

TatianaLarina · 07/12/2019 12:27

Another woman has apparently come forward who says she slept with PA via JE. And 9 more women claim they were groomed and abused by JE, one when she was 13.

SlightlyBonkersQFA · 07/12/2019 12:47

Eugh. What was PA thinking doing that ridiculous interview. He would have been better off making an announcement to say that he had co-operated with FBI (and genuinely co-operated with them). That would have been far less damaging. He is a very stupid man.

MinervaSaidThat · 07/12/2019 12:53

People are very good at believing their own lies over time. Perhaps he genuinely feels hard done by that VG told the world about a time that he probably thinks makes him a Casanova. He does not think he did anything wrong, he only took what the masters of the universe are entitled to.

TatianaLarina · 07/12/2019 13:00

Stupidity + a royal title has always been a bad combination.

TooManyPaws · 07/12/2019 13:16

Sadly religious people are as likely to be abusers as anyone else.

A friend who is a criminal justice social worker once told me that sex offenders are proportionally more likely to be pillars of the community such as kirk elders etc.

Lizzie0869 · 07/12/2019 13:32

@TooManyPaws sadly I suspect he's spot on. My F was a barrister, missionary and had inflated ideas of his own importance. I suspect he was also a complete narcissist.

The problem is that all church denominations have been completely spineless when it comes to putting their house in order. Worse, there's a large number in leadership who tell victims to keep quiet, because they'll bring God's name into disrepute. They don't seem to see that they're the ones who are doing it. Sad

RhinoskinhaveI · 07/12/2019 13:35

Of course people who are corrupt are drawn to positions of power, which then further corrupts them

Bluerussian · 07/12/2019 13:40

Thanks andyoldlabour. What an eye opener eh? When I was young it was Maltese and then Jamaicans. Alongside were the indigenous British of course, they were always present. In more recent times, Russians. It's always happened and always will. The police are often quite useless too.

However - back to Prince Andrew :-). Seedy as he is in the light of the current scandal, he is small fry compared to others involved with Epstein. He has the publicity because of his name but he wasn't Epstein's near neighbour and there were plenty who were. Not defending him but I feel he was a bit out of his depth with these people and probably didn't know there was illegal trafficking going on.

Some undoubtedly did know but whether or not they'll be called to account remains to be seen. Ghislane is, of course, one. What an idiot she was and is probably licking her wounds now - she was in love with Epstein, would you believe!

That man has a lot to answer for but he isn't around any more to do so.

SunsetBoulevard3 · 07/12/2019 16:03

He is a very stupid man.

Yes, that goes without question.

SerendipityJane · 07/12/2019 17:19

Stupidity + a royal title has always been a bad combination.

As Eddie Izzard said, never a good thing when cousins marry ... IQ right down the toilet.

TooManyPaws · 07/12/2019 17:31

@Lizzie0869

I will say that my respect for the RC leadership in Scotland rose when they appointed an outside committee to look at child abuse, safeguarding, and previous treatment of victims and offenders in the church, and the way forward, unlike other areas and churches who have dealt with it internally.

Incidentally, one of the committee members was a former Inspector of Prisons who is also a former Moderator of the Church of Scotland. That's what you might call a hard-hitting outsider 😁

DingDongSchadenfreudeOnHigh · 07/12/2019 17:38

I feel he was a bit out of his depth with these people and probably didn't know there was illegal trafficking going on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I'm sure he didn't know there was illegal trafficking going on - there are none so blind as those who make sure they don't see anything they don't want to.

It suited him not to know, so he made sure he didn't look closely - just accepted what was "offered".

It's like a bloke near me who never seems to see his dog defecating until it's pointed out to him. He makes sure the dog is off the lead, umpteen yards behind him and he doesn't look back. He usually hasn't even brought a bag "Oh - I must have left them in the car". (Fortunately there are several people waiting to offer him one - he gets on all of our tits.)

This is exactly the same principle.

Lizzie0869 · 07/12/2019 17:44

@TooManyPaws

Yes that's definitely how it should be! I think that's the problem with independent evangelical churches, they depend on the integrity of the leaders. As Christians, we believe that we're all sinners, therefore there should be proper accountability.

Lizzie0869 · 07/12/2019 17:47

@DingDongSchadenfreudeOnHigh I totally agree with you. I think the excuses being made for PA are so predictable. If he wasn't a member of the Royal Family there wouldn't be so many excuses being made for him. Hmm

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 07/12/2019 19:38

"probably didn't know there was illegal trafficking going on"
He probably didn't read any V. Nabakov's books either. That would probably explain why he wouldn't know why the private plane he travelled on was called the "Lolita Express. Probably. Xmas Wink

BlackCatSleeping · 08/12/2019 05:06

Well, she says he knew she was17 and she certainly did look very young. He knew she wasn’t from the UK. I’m also guessing it was pretty obvious she wasn’t well educated and from a rich family. So, what explanation could there possibly be for her being there other than she was trafficked?

He knew. He just didn’t care.

ChristmasAngst · 08/12/2019 08:56

Ghislaine - what an idiot she was.

What kind of a woman touts and manipulates young vulnerable girls for your rich boyfriend. There have been many accomplices and enablers who have helped their men achieve their sick desires. She is now part of that history.

She's not an I idiot. She has no talent, she isn't a looker and she's nothing without her dads wealth and connections from this wealth. She's no idiot. She's just another rich entitled person who thinks her societies laws and boundaries don't apply to her.

doublebarrellednurse · 08/12/2019 09:11

@ChristmasAngst I felt this way about her too until I listened to the real crime profile podcast on her and it appears she grew up around similar behaviour to Epstein's and was quite damaged herself.

As an adult she doesn't have an excuse but it was interesting to listen to a different perspective on her (I knew nothing about her bar the Epstein case).

StartupRepair · 08/12/2019 09:16

I think in Andrew's world you just don't think about where people come from. If you asked him why she was there he would have said she was young and pretty and liked meeting famous people. He just couldn't see her through any lens other than his own ridiculous and rarefied life.

Tvstar · 08/12/2019 09:32

I don't know whether he did or didn't, but Mumsnet want to hope that the Royal family are not litigious all the people saying PA had sex with a 17year old as though it were proven fact.

TatianaLarina · 08/12/2019 09:33

I think if you saw a constant stream of teenage girls at your mate’s house you’d question where they came from, prince or no.

SerendipityJane · 08/12/2019 10:05

I don't know whether he did or didn't, but Mumsnet want to hope that the Royal family are not litigious all the people saying PA had sex with a 17year old as though it were proven fact.

I think there really is a "bring it on" case to be made here. (And the fact that the RF aren't jumping up and down speaks volumes.)

Imagine PA trying to drag a poster on here into court (for what ? They won't have two pennies to rub together) and having to be forensically grilled under oath.

Ain't never gonna happen. Unless PAs retinue have never heard of Oscar Wilde, of course.

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