To wonder if there are any Leavers who would prefer no Brexit to no deal?

[Bearbehind]

I honestly don’t see where the opportunity to compromise and find a deal can come from now - Johnson has raised the rhetoric too much, so it looks like no deal or no Brexit.

Reading posts from Remainers lately (and I’m a Remainer but don’t really understand this), there’s still an insistence that Leavers don’t all want no deal.

Whilst I agree it wouldn’t have been most people’s first choice, I don’t see any evidence that they’d prefer to avoid it, even if that mean no Brexit

So would any Leavers prefer not leaving to No Deal?

And I promise this isn’t going to end in me asking why! 😂

I just don’t think there are any Leavers would prefer no a Brexit over No Deal so Remainers pinning hopes on them is pointless.

No. I just want out.

No. I want to leave more than ever.

Johnson has raised the rhetoric too much, so it looks like no deal or no Brexit. To be fair he has just forced all politicians to be clear and to stop pretending about what they want.

Now, as you say, it is blindinlgy obvious to everyone, no matter how they voted:

• The electorate voted Leave by a narrow margin
• Elected politicians want Remain, by a simialrly slim margin
• Some of them will be acting against the majority vote of their constituency, in both directions

They have rushed through laws to get what they want
They are scandalised at the thought of someone wanting to do something eually precipitate
They can't have No Deal without consensus
There will be no such consensus
They won't accept The Deal
The EU won't offer Antoher Deal

..and STILL they say they are working towards Something and some people believe there is a right and wrong here!

Whatever happens next our political system has been utterly fucked by this. Social media, the cult of instant response has added to the issue. We will see changes, whether a retrenching into Victorian style patriarchal politics or a more liberal, fuzzy (read terrifying), referendum every 5 minutes style we can have no idea!

Meanwhile nobody is looking at how other EU countries are wobbling on... which is interesting!

Germany is having an industrial melt down
France is having a renewed national pride push
Italys politics seem to have been taken over by an 80s pop band

It isn't looking too good, wherever you look

My best friend - voted Leave but thought we would get a great deal. We were talking about it on Saturday night and she said she would rather remain than not get a deal at all but would still rathe a great deal.

I voted leave but think we should have another referendum based on the current facts rather than the bullshit spewed on both sides.

Well I haven't met anyone of them, the leavers I have come across seem to be lacking in any critical thinking skills.* They just want out regardless of any consequences.

• I am not saying ALL leavers lack critical thinking skills but the ones I know pretty much don't.

Sadly those facts would still be bullshit.. spewed by both sides.

The absolute truth is, as it has always been, that nobody does or can, know what will happen in the medium and long term, if/however we leave. Even the sort term is argued over...

It was always going to be a leap int othe dark. And EVERYBODY knew that. Leavers voted to leap into the unknown, Remainers chose the safety of the known

That the vte was s close, that politicians are equally conflicted, shows that this can never have a good outcome!

Pandora's box, without the hope!

I have a work colleague who voted to leave. She still thinks there's a great deal to be done. She just cannot comprehend no deal as an outcome.

I am not saying ALL leavers lack critical thinking skills but the ones I know pretty much don't.

I don't think that says what you meant it to! Double negatives being what they are

I know some Leavers who, if offered the chance again, would vote Remain. They believed in the likes of David Davis who said we'd get a deal (in fact, he pretty much said we'd get all the things we have now, which of course was nonsense) and that it would be really simple. They say they have now had more of a chance to see the likely scenarios and would prefer to remain than crash out with no deal.

I voted remain but I've thought for a while that it would be better if the eu allowed us to keep the deal we have but to not allow the UK any MEPs. Also we can let brexiters have blue pass ports and longer queues at airports if they want.

I blame Noel Edmonds for the current situation. No Deal was what the audience cheered for even if the risk was opening the 1p box. Brexiters think that the EU is like the banker on a game show.

I just want out. Think I'd prefer no deal at the moment, as worried any deal means us continuing to pay millions to the EU for years.

sapphire I realised that after I posted, but it was too late.

Trying to do more than one thing at once.

I prefer to remain than accept May's WA.

Still, I would like very much to leave.

No I want to get out more than ever

I think there’s a certain psychology in those who want to leave more than ever. It’s quite common for people when shown to be wrong to double down. Now that Brexit has demonstrably been shown to be damaging and incoherent, this effect can be seen in those who still want to leave to some extent

I think for the sake of democracy we have to leave. I dread to think how this country would recover if the parliament turned round and said we aren't leaving.

Despite what the remain of MN think, I also think a people's vote wouldnt solve anything, it would be the same result as before- leave.

Now that Brexit has demonstrably been shown to be damaging and incoherent, this effect can be seen in those who still want to leave to some extent Has it? I have ket up with all the most certain statements of what WILL happen.. and all of them depend upon unknowns and all hewdge their best and say could

Because nobody actually knows - it has never happened before!

But incoherent covers it, both sides, well!

I know 6 people who voted to leave. Four of them changed their minds quite quickly (the same evening, in one case!).

Of the remaining 2, one is an out and out racist and very right wing (thinks homeless people have only themselves to blame and people get mental health problems because they have been mollycoddled).

The other is my intelligent, well-educated, well-read, Labour-voting and utterly lovely MIL. I was beyond shocked when she told us she voted to leave. She's adamant that everything will be ok post-Brexit, because "We got through the war ok". Her solution to the Irish border situation is that "We should all go back to being one country" (good luck with that one, MIL!).

I've avoided visiting over the last few months, so I don't know how she feels about no-deal and its potential aftermath. DP won't discuss it with her, because it makes him so angry (his son is type 1 diabetic and DP is quietly very worried about the possibility of insulin shortages).

But he revealed the other day that she believes the moon landings never happened and it was all a hoax, so maybe I've misjudged her!

Has it? I have ket up with all the most certain statements of what WILL happen.. and all of them depend upon unknowns and all hewdge their best and say could

At the very least, three things have become clear.

The first is that if we voted to leave, statements like "we would hold all, the cards", "it would be the easiest deal in history", etc, have been shown to be false.

Secondly, our international standing has been damaged.

Third, leaving the EU seems to be inconsistent with the GFA.

Nice summation Atmos. It's abundantly clear no one thought about the potential for the Irish question to rear its head at the time of the referendum. And the GFA has to be maintained.

I would far prefer to leave with no deal than accept May's remainer deal or remain in. Remaining in would be better than accepting May' deal though. Best to leave with a simple free trade agreement and scrap Withdrawal Agreement that restricts us from moving on.

I'm going to labour the point, but the process has demonstrated a great inconsistency about the Brexit position.

Inside the EU, we are somehow bullied and dominated by France and Germany. However, once we leave, our position will be so strong that France and Germany will bend to our demands. It's inconsistent.

If you genuinely believed we were getting a bad deal from the EU as a member, then it seems logically impossible to believe we would ever get a better deal if we left.