To wonder if there are any Leavers who would prefer no Brexit to no deal?

[Bearbehind]

I honestly don’t see where the opportunity to compromise and find a deal can come from now - Johnson has raised the rhetoric too much, so it looks like no deal or no Brexit.

Reading posts from Remainers lately (and I’m a Remainer but don’t really understand this), there’s still an insistence that Leavers don’t all want no deal.

Whilst I agree it wouldn’t have been most people’s first choice, I don’t see any evidence that they’d prefer to avoid it, even if that mean no Brexit

So would any Leavers prefer not leaving to No Deal?

I'm not saying we should have the same deal as Canada but only that it is possible to do a deal both countries are happy with without demanding a stranglehold over other a country's ability to trade elsewhere...

Curious Obviously I wasn't teaching you to suck eggs, was more a general posting of "thoughts"

AGain.. does anyne kow ANY forum with a balanced discussion about Brexit? Or are they all very one sided?

No. Certainly not here. There have been occasional outbreaks of reason in a few of the eleventy billion Brexit threads over the last three years but it pretty much always ends up the same way in the end.

I want out, NO deal if necessary but i don't think will ever happen

@user1493759849.

FWIW I am a remainer.

I don’t think all Leave voters are racist etc etc, but if you look here, you can sort of see why Remain voters might have experienced some of those opinions in the leave voters that they do know. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/jun/24/the-areas-and-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won

I still don’t want to leave, but if we are leaving. I want the country to be able to move forward. I hope for unity and harmony and utopia. The reality is, that if we don’t leave, the people who voted for it, will be devastated and resentful. If we do leave and it’s a shitshow, then those of us who really don’t want to leave will be resentful.

I would love to see a way out of this that is acceptable for everyone, but I can’t see it happening. I thought this was really interesting. yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/08/29/search-median-voter-brexit

We seem entrenched in adversarial positions in public and in Parliament and I cannot see how we move forward from here. Am I convinced that Leave will be ok? No, far from it, but in this case I would be very happy to be proved wrong.

Sorry Shatner That remark was forthose who always refer to Leavers as thick as mince. I was enjoying our polite, informed discussion, wouldn't want to have broken it with an ill constructed sentence!

I want out, NO deal if necessary but i don't think will ever happen

How can you possibly want no deal? Are you that well off with no medical problems or need to travel that you're just not fussed? Are you aware that if we have no deal, the next step will be us for us to go back and try and get a deal?

but if you look here, you can sort of see why Remain voters might have experienced some of those opinions in the leave voters that they do know. Bites tongue! I suspect you are trying not to say that poorer, less educated people are inherently more racist? Not sure that's what that piece says!

How can you possibly want no deal? Are you that well off with no medical problems or need to travel that you're just not fussed? Are you aware that if we have no deal, the next step will be us for us to go back and try and get a deal? Again show me. Proof, not opinion!

Proof that those of us older than the UKs EU membership, who travelled for pleasure, for work, for medical treatment, will find obvious!

Or are you suggesting that if/when we leave the EU will close its doors to the UK?

If people are foolish enough to think No Deal is like flouncing out of a pub where you don't like the atmosphere, I suspect that many Leavers do want this.

GFA.

Again show me. Proof, not opinion!

You say this, and don't respond when I respond.

Operation Yellowhammer is the Government's official planning for a no deal Brexit. It has identified 12 areas of risk.

Transport systems
People crossing borders
Key goods crossing borders
Healthcare services
UK energy and other critical systems
UK food and water supplies
UK Nationals in the EU
Law enforcement implications
Banking and finance industry services
Brexit and the Irish border
Specific risks to overseas territories and Crown dependencies (including the effect of Brexit on Gibraltar)
National Security

This is not my opinion that no-deal will pose a risk to trade, medical supplies and travel. Saying that it was possible to travel to France and get paracetamol before we joined the EEC does nothing to negate these risks.

No Deal is apparently dreadful for Ireland but no problem for us. That kind of thinking keeps us in this mess.

GFA can change. All agreements can. GFA does not mean a stranglehold on the UK. It is not a Gotcha, nor an ace up your sleeve.

It is a complication, but it shoudn't be insurmountable!

And do you really think that there is a large % of voting adults in the UK who equate flouncing out of a pub with Brexit? Weird!

The thing is you're asking for a unreasonably high level of "proof". I cannot prove the future. All I can do is to suggest that it is not entirely unreasonable that if we have no deal with the EU on 1 November, then it will be highly likely that there will be difficulties arising with goods and services that have to travel between the EU and the UK, and they include food and medicine.

If you think GFA can change in a couple of weeks, you are naive.
And yes, there are plenty of people who think No Deal means very little changes.

GFA can change. All agreements can. GFA does not mean a stranglehold on the UK. It is not a Gotcha, nor an ace up your sleeve.

I sense that it actually is. We have a simple problem

1. We have agreed, for reasons of peace, to keep an open border between NI and ROI

2. Any customs union that exists in the World has borders and border checks

3. If you want to leave a customs union, we have to create a border

4. is contradictory with 1)

Oh dear. I had hoped this could be a simple thread just answering the question.

One thing for the life of me I do not understand is those Remainers who still think they’re going to change the minds of Leavers now.

I guess this thread has demonstrated the point though - those who want to leave pretty much want to do it with no deal if that’s the only option.

I do despair at those still saying, ‘I’d prefer it with a great deal’ though.

Reality check - that’s not, and never was possible - hence the current mess and my question.

Not trying to change people's minds but it would be nice if people grew the fuck up and looked at compromise solutions.

The absolute truth is, as it has always been, that nobody does or can, know what will happen in the medium and long term, if/however we leave. Even the sort term is argued over

Actually that's not wholly correct. No one knows long term obviously, and depending on your definition of short term, then factually it is known what will happen in the first two years.

All critical companies, of which there are several thousand named are working with government advisors and need to submit white papers on what the state of play will be and what mitigation's have been put in place. The fact the government has decided "it's not in the public's interests" to have that information and politicians continue to play a game with it because it's published doesn't mean it's not known. It's absolutely known. Just not by Joe public.

Mid term looking at it, that for say ten years then I'd say it's pretty well known, not exact, but on broad parameters they absolutely know. After that it's not known only guessed at but doubtful we could get back to the position of wealth we are in today within a generation. It will look like austerity look like the golden days.

So to say it's not known, yes in the long term that's true, in the mid term it's only partially true because it's not exact, but short term, yes they know. There are literally hundreds of government ministers working with critical companies and garnering information, I can state this as o work for one of those companies.

just a note on the getting poorer argument.....I have bought and sold homes, rented, been doing the food shop for a couple of decades....nothing has ever "gotten" cheaper!

Oh dear. I had hoped this could be a simple thread just answering the question.

I have to hold up my hand and take some of the blame here. However, I'm desperately trying to understand if those who advocate no deal understand what it entails. From what I can see, many people seem to view it like a deal like going to a garage, offering to buy a car, and then pulling out at the last minute, and then returning to the status quo, rather than what it surely is, the disruption to our current arrangements on which everything from waste disposal to food and medicine is dependent.

You say this, and don't respond when I respond. Hey? You havent respinded directly to me yet, have you?

Identifying area of risk is sensible, not a declaration of catastrophe!

Spain?

Don't know... collecting ugly barnacles, apparently.

just a note on the getting poorer argument.....I have bought and sold homes, rented, been doing the food shop for a couple of decades....nothing has ever "gotten" cheaper!

In real terms, food has definitely become cheaper (although they've risen recently)