I'm appalled that parents ask their child to lie about term time holidays.

[Soontobe60]

I've seen many threads on MN where parents ask about taking their children on holiday during term time. Will it be authorised? Will they be fined? Does it count as exceptional circumstances? Should I just phone in sick? My big concern is that by phoning in sick, the parents are then expecting their child to lie about the holiday before they go away, and then again on their return to school. I can't say how these parents coach their dcs in the lying but I can imagine it's something along the lines of 'The headteacher is really mean and won't let you come on holiday so we need to keep it a secret. Mummy might get fined and that wouldn't be fair. Remember, don't tell anyone.'

The pressure that child is then put under is huge, from the moment the lie is concocted until well after the holiday is over. I just can't see why a parent would do that to their child. It's tantamount to abuse. So many times I've seen children try to lie to staff or other children about their holiday and it's awful. I know they're lying, I know their parents are lying.

What then happens when that same child tells their parent a lie about something they may have done, and their parent tells them lying is wrong? What they actually mean is it's ok to lie if it stops mummy or daddy getting into trouble.

If you want to save money by going on holiday in term time then own it! Budget for getting the fine whilst you're budgeting for the actual holiday. Tell the school well in advance, and accept that it will most probably be unauthorised and may incur a fine.

Please, just don't make your child lie for you.

I phone in sick but never ask my child to lie. With my oldest I used to say, maybe don’t mention it, but they wouldn’t be in trouble if they did. With my 6 year old recently I fully expected him to be telling everybody about his holiday. Makes no difference, I call the office, say they are sick, it gets noted down. I very much doubt that teacher will check up on this and then go to the headteacher to grads me up. Never happened so far. Although only left a couple of days before the May half term this year.
Years ago we used to do a full week every year before they got so strict with it. My oldest is also in secondary now.

I just tell them stupid systems lead to responses in kind. The school is better off with them being called in sick than adding to their unauthorized absence totals anyway. The kids don't need to lie, they just don't say anything at all. But then I've taken them out for two school days in 7 years, both for a theatre matinee we couldn't have seen at any other time, and their attendance has otherwise always been over 98%. I don't lose sleep at night...

I've known school staff suggest parents lie.

Doesn't surprise me to be honest. People want it both ways - they want the holiday without the fine.

I have noticed that on thread such as these the people that have done it almost always now have high flying DC is secondary school or Uni.

Then again OP I don’t see why parents should feel all that bad for taking term time leave when you hear some of the reasons staff give for needing time off. You are totally the bad guy for saying “no, I’m sorry you cannot have two extra days on your summer holiday that will mean you miss the inset day and first day of term”

I have phoned them in sick and told my DC to lie about it. I could not have afforded a holiday for my DC in the holidays.

You can be as appalled as you like 🤷‍♀️. When I was a cash strapped single parent one of my priorities was to ensure my DC had a half decent week in down in Cornwall each year. I'm not as moralistic as you about lying to the school, that's ok with me.

It's tantamount to abuse.

Are you this overly dramatic IRL ? Give SS a call, maybe they'll let you be privy to some real abuse.

Using terms like abuse for things you dont like, is diluting the term.

The pressure that child is then put under is huge, from the moment the lie is concocted until well after the holiday is over.

This is absolute nonsense. I don't tell my children to lie and they've never been asked. I call them in sick and tell them I am doing so we can go on holiday a few days early. They've never been worried or pressured, just excited about going on holiday.

Most children end up telling. If it is a day or 2 most schools will turn a blind eye. I would. I have taught children though who miss at least the first and last week of every term plus illness. They are not doing as well as they should be doing due to missing lots of learning. 6 weeks off school is way too much and I think the parents should be penalised because we will be questioned about progress and help accountable

If the system wasn’t so stupid we wouldn’t need to do it.
Couple of days at end or beginning of term is not worth getting your knickers in a twist about.
Phone in sick, tell them straight out, don’t let them boss you about.

Some children at my DC’s school go abroad for 3-4 weeks! I’m astonished tbh, no idea if they get fined but I’d imagine the fine would be substantial if so.

I took my daughter away and lied to the school....
Didn't tell her to lie, just didn't mention it to her that she's had days off school - when she went back to school she said to a teacher I was on an aeroplane last night; no big deal, the headteacher rang me and asked me if we had a term time holiday as if so she was going to fine me - I asked her if she had any proof; she did not; so told her to piss off and to not call me about it again.

No I don't care about lying to the school.
yes I'd do it again and I didn't put any of that "the headteacher is mean" chat onto my dd

I'm a parent and took the parental decision to take my child on holiday.

It's tantamount to abuse.

Dramatic much?
By any chance are you a head teacher?

You're a charmer crazycat 🙄

I think a lot of parents think school staff are stupid and won’t work it out.

It's £60 for every period of absence. Some schools say every five days is a period of absence but most fine £60 no matter how long. Many don't fine at all. So not particularly substantial. It's not a daily charge.

You have ‘imagined’ a scenario in your head about what other parents say to their children and decided that is child abuse.
YABU

I think a lot of parents think school staff are stupid and won’t work it out

I think many parents don't care if they do especially if their child has otherwise good attendance. For a day or two it's just easier than going through the rigmarole or requesting permission that won't be given and hopefully avoiding a fine.

Do you get fined if your kids are off school in England? Omg! I didn't know that!

Sorry but some people really can’t afford holidays unless they are in term time.

Do poor children going on holiday offend you as much OP?

YABU.

I have friends who have immediate family abroad and as soon as it gets to half term and any school holidays the prices to visit skyrocket.

They say they would rather pay up the fine than pay £100+ extra per person that the airlines are charging to visit their loved ones.

As long as they're not going for weeks on end or around important exams etc I don't see anything wrong with it.

But they don’t have to lie about it, and they especially don’t have to get their children to lie about it

"Tantamount to abuse" is massively overstating it, but encouraging your kids to lie and be deceitful isn't great parenting IMO. Plus it's confusing for the kids and undermines their teacher's authority.

Attendance officer here. Nine times out of ten we know full well when parents are lying and saying their kids are ill. Frustrating but not much we can do about it. We only refer for a fine if it's five days or more, and if a kid had five straight days of non specific sickness we'd probably ask for a medical note anyway. I find the kids having one or two sick days every other week throughout the year yet are fine when they're in school far more frustrating than those who go on holiday in term time.

Bear in mind private schools and grammars don’t fine the parents of their students - and so rich parents often do take their kids away during term time. We have such a two tier education system in the UK - one rule for the poor and another for the rich.

Its easier.