I'm appalled that parents ask their child to lie about term time holidays.

[Soontobe60]

I've seen many threads on MN where parents ask about taking their children on holiday during term time. Will it be authorised? Will they be fined? Does it count as exceptional circumstances? Should I just phone in sick? My big concern is that by phoning in sick, the parents are then expecting their child to lie about the holiday before they go away, and then again on their return to school. I can't say how these parents coach their dcs in the lying but I can imagine it's something along the lines of 'The headteacher is really mean and won't let you come on holiday so we need to keep it a secret. Mummy might get fined and that wouldn't be fair. Remember, don't tell anyone.'

The pressure that child is then put under is huge, from the moment the lie is concocted until well after the holiday is over. I just can't see why a parent would do that to their child. It's tantamount to abuse. So many times I've seen children try to lie to staff or other children about their holiday and it's awful. I know they're lying, I know their parents are lying.

What then happens when that same child tells their parent a lie about something they may have done, and their parent tells them lying is wrong? What they actually mean is it's ok to lie if it stops mummy or daddy getting into trouble.

If you want to save money by going on holiday in term time then own it! Budget for getting the fine whilst you're budgeting for the actual holiday. Tell the school well in advance, and accept that it will most probably be unauthorised and may incur a fine.

Please, just don't make your child lie for you.

Passthecherrycoke

Why’s that?

I very much doubt it TBH. It took me precisely 25 seconds to find the "fine guidelines" for my own LA, and if parents can sort out holiday bookings online I wouldn't this to be beyond more than a very few

I think you underestimate the amount of people that are guided by “my mum/mate/neighbour told me” rather than look up actual facts.

You only need to see how many people say to put one school, or you have to put x school as your first choice, or turn down an unwanted place to force them to give you a better one in the school admissions process to realise people listen to other people.

I phone in sick, but never lie, in my local
Authority they cannot fine you if you haven’t put in a written permission holiday request.

So sick they are!

You could well be right, bluebluezoo ... I should have remembered the local mum who told me "on really good authority " that their Head was sacked because they only granted holidays to the kids of PTA members

The Head actually left because they were very sick, but why let that spoil a good story?

@herculepoirot2 just read the post you quoted from me and your response

*Me- “Also, it’s ok to peg holidays as Unnecessary but when the parents work full time, weekends are full of activities and long drives to visit grandparents, Christmas is a whirlwind of organising things and so on, a week or 2 away as a family is very precious. Non negotiable for us”

You: “None of those things are work other than Christmas”*. 🙄

It doesn’t make any sense. Why are you talking about things not being work? Why are you rolling your eyes? Your post doesn’t have any relevance to mine

@passthecherrycoke I think @herculepoirot2 is making the point that those things are enjoyable too, so the two weeks holiday are not the only chance to have rest and quality time together. Which I wholeheartedly agree with.

If the rest of your life is such a chore and your holiday is all you have to look forward to.. it’s pretty sad.

The pressure that child is then put under is huge, from the moment the lie is concocted until well after the holiday is over. I just can't see why a parent would do that to their child. It's tantamount to abuse
I’m guessing you don’t have kids OP. Kids are stronger than you make out and it certainly hasn’t ever affected anyone having to lie about a term time holiday.

Well then you and Hercules both have comprehension problems. Although, that still makes no sense. Only Christmas is work? Wtf? Compared to full time work only Christmas is work? Dim.

Passthecherrycoke

It’s a simple point, Pass. The things you have listed are leisure activities. Moaning about having to take additional leisure time out of education time because of all the other things you ‘have’ to do, when you don’t ‘have’ to do them at all, doesn’t really make sense.

working full time- leisure?

weekends are full of activities - leisure?

long drives to visit grandparents- leisure?

Christmas is a whirlwind of organising things and so on- leisure?

And then bizarrely your post stated that Christmas is work but the others (including, you know, full time work) were not

Go on admit it. You misread the post

I didn’t misread the post. Visiting people, sports, celebrating - those are things you do in your spare time. You’re trying to make out they are essentials and therefore their necessity excuses you taking time out of your children’s educations. I couldn’t care less whether or not you do that, but you’re talking out of your hind quarters.

With the exception of work, obviously. Work is work. But weekends aren’t. Your kids get 13 weeks plus weekends to please themselves. It’s plenty of time.

@Lilyrose90
Please make an effort and read the full post dear!
I’m guessing you don’t have kids OP. Kids are stronger than you make out and it certainly hasn’t ever affected anyone having to lie about a term time holiday
I am a teacher. I am a parent. I have witnessed children realising they have been 'caught out' in a lie about why they were off school on numerous times. For some of them, the effect in them is very obvious. The most recent incident, this year, is a family who went on holiday abroad during a half term week, but didn't return to school until almost two weeks later. Mum had phoned up on the first day back after the half term to say they were not allowed to fly back home as she had had a seizure and the doctor would not allow her to fly. They'd be home asap.
When he came back, I asked him how is mum was after being so unwell, and if they managed to stay in the same hotel. He burst into tears and blurted put that she hadn't been ill at all, she made it up. He begged me not to tell his mum he'd told me because he would get into trouble.
He was very visibly affected by the lie he'd been a party to. No child should be made to feel that bad. So your comment about lying not having affected anybody is crap. The only way that could be remotely true is if you personally knew every child in the country who had been put in that situation.

“You’re trying to make out they are essentials and therefore their necessity excuses you taking time out of your children’s educations. I couldn’t care less whether or not you do that, but you’re talking out of your hind quarters.”

No I’m not 🤣🤣 it is your comprehension skills. I can’t say anymore really, you clearly can’t get it

YABU to be appalled. I am appalled that teachers use their own money to buy supplies. I am appalled that some parents genuinely afford to feed their children in the school holidays. I am not appalled about this at all.

I don’t get the hysteria. It’s not acceptable for a year 11 student to miss 2 weeks before their mock GCSEs but a 7 year old missing a few days here or there isn’t such a big issue. It’s the system that’s the problem. Parents should be able to have a certain number of days authorised. I’ve got no skin in the game because I’ve never taken my children out in term time but I would for a family wedding or another huge event. I was never taken out of school term time either. Oh actually, when my sister was in primary school, I think she was maybe year 4 or 5, my mum requested permission for 2 days term time holiday for a family wedding and it was denied. My mum took her out anyway. This was a private school and I think she was on a power trip.

Passthecherrycoke

Oh right. 🙄

Yep it's the system and ridiculous hammer to crack a small nut.

Awful when dp are under all kinds of pressures, illness etc and they have this additional fear and stress of the bloody school and fines.

Elle you sound like your madly justifying not going on proper holiday.

One can enjoy many things with dc but nothing beats the excitement of staying somewhere new and unfamiliar. I include the UK of course.

In 10 years we've never taken Ds out of school but next year at doing so for one day before half term. We won't tell him in advance (he thinks we are going after school) but will just phone in sick in the morning. Apparently our school prefers you to do this than get unauthorised as they don't have to report it to LA that way.

But I'm still feeling naughty about it. I think we are the only family never to have done it! However as the school have forced him to stay off school for 48 hours when he's just had a vomit after eating (he's done this since was little and so do I, when things don't 'sit right' in stomach) I'm trying not to feel too bad about it. He's missed school by being forced off when he's totally 100% well .....

As a professional working with children suffering abuse I really object to the sensationalism you use in your post. If kids in such families had someone taking them away for a day or two in term time for the experience of a couple of days of happy childhood; school and other agencies, in my experience, would be full support. In reality abused kids may not even get into school and also the breakfast clubs/after school activities on top of pastoral support on offer. Most children want to be there and (I work in an area of massive deprivation) it is funded. Living with a parent who is unable/unwilling to get up and get you to school, particularly when barriers such as having the correct uinform or parents own issues are being addressed, that is abuse.

I completely agree with @herculepoirot2 and feel that maybe @Passthecherrycoke is a little tired today and struggling to keeping up.

@Fragalino I admit it’s nice to have a holiday. But it’s not the end of the world if you can’t go, and it’s not worth lying to your school about in order to have a holiday. That’s what I’m saying. Not sure I need to “justify” not going on holiday as if I owe it to the world to go on holiday??

I've taken ds out of school for a holiday once, he missed 6 days of school in Y3. We didn't get fined & it was unauthorised, this was before the new system of fines being controlled by the council, just a headmaster who thought that no children should miss school to go on holiday. Thankfully ds does his GCSE's next summer & I'm booking us a once in a lifetime holiday once his exams are over but before the rest of schools break up.

Also, it’s ok to peg holidays as Unnecessary but when the parents work full time, weekends are full of activities and long drives to visit grandparents, Christmas is a whirlwind of organising things and so on, a week or 2 away as a family is very precious.

This is hilarious

@willstarttomorrow
As a professional working with children suffering abuse I really object to the sensationalism you use in your post.

And if you had read my following posts you would have seen that I admitted my choice of words was OTT. However, in your capacity, would you not agree that parents putting children in situations where they are made to lie is very concerning? Whether it's lying about why they are late to school, or mum leaving them home alone whilst she's out getting pissed, the principle is the same. Clearly the reasons behind the lies are diametrically opposed but no parent should expect their child to lie for them.