I'm appalled that parents ask their child to lie about term time holidays.

[Soontobe60]

I've seen many threads on MN where parents ask about taking their children on holiday during term time. Will it be authorised? Will they be fined? Does it count as exceptional circumstances? Should I just phone in sick? My big concern is that by phoning in sick, the parents are then expecting their child to lie about the holiday before they go away, and then again on their return to school. I can't say how these parents coach their dcs in the lying but I can imagine it's something along the lines of 'The headteacher is really mean and won't let you come on holiday so we need to keep it a secret. Mummy might get fined and that wouldn't be fair. Remember, don't tell anyone.'

The pressure that child is then put under is huge, from the moment the lie is concocted until well after the holiday is over. I just can't see why a parent would do that to their child. It's tantamount to abuse. So many times I've seen children try to lie to staff or other children about their holiday and it's awful. I know they're lying, I know their parents are lying.

What then happens when that same child tells their parent a lie about something they may have done, and their parent tells them lying is wrong? What they actually mean is it's ok to lie if it stops mummy or daddy getting into trouble.

If you want to save money by going on holiday in term time then own it! Budget for getting the fine whilst you're budgeting for the actual holiday. Tell the school well in advance, and accept that it will most probably be unauthorised and may incur a fine.

Please, just don't make your child lie for you.

I asked for permission for one day off for a family wedding and got it marked as unauthorised.

One day we had booked a trip to London to see the Harry Potter history of magic exhibition at the British Library, I could only get a weekday ticket. So I phoned up and told them they were ill. Secondary school, so not going to run and tell everyone! It was a Thursday so they probably did suspect as I have twins and both having a random 1 day illness is not very likely (they've had other illnesses together but not a one day thing) but they never said anything.

When they had funerals to go to I just rang the day before and told them, no way was I asking for permission.

At our school there were a family who's kids got chicken pox. Funny how when they came back 2 weeks later they had a glorious tan.

I don't even know why they lied, our school are really reasonable and don't give a shit about holidays.

I just tell the school we are taking the kids out. Never been a problem. No one has to lie about anything. It’s marked down as unauthorised but never had repercussions and certainly no fines.

The OP isn’t saying people shouldn’t go on term time holidays, just not to lie about it.

I don’t understand how they can lie about how their child was off sick for a week, and then that child comes to school the next week, and instead of looking pale and wan, is tanned and healthy

Maybe the term 'abuse' is OTT, but it's still wrong to expect your child to lie on your behalf. I have witnessed children becoming very upset when they realise they've spilled the beans about their holiday.
I totally agree, not being able to take a child out of school for a holiday is not something I agree with. I think allowing a 2 week period for a holiday is the best way forward. Banning term time holidays tends to affect less well off families so is quite divisive.
I'm not a head teacher, and all the ones I've worked with have exercised common sense when deciding if to authorise a holiday. If I were a Head, I'd do the same.
My post is about expecting your child to lie for you. A few weeks ago, I was on the playground at the start of the day, for meet and greet. I locked the gate at 9am so late children then have to enter through the main door and sign their child in. As I entered the reception area at about 1/4 past, I bent down to tie a small child's lace. A parent came through the door, obviously didn't realise it was me there, and told her boys that if anyone asked, to say they were late because they had an emergency doctors appointment then ran out. Her boys saw me there when I stood up and were mortified. The office staff signed them in and they didn't say why they were late. No child should be put in that position.
@CrazyCatLady159
- I asked her if she had any proof; she did not; so told her to piss off and to not call me about it again.
Yep, you really are a charmer. She did have proof; your child told her the truth!

I’ve only done this once for one day to attend a wedding. Phoned in sick for DD, drove 4 miles to wedding, arrived at venue DD immediately developed raging temperature and we had to go back to the hotel. 8 hour round trip no wedding attended. no lying required in the end, that’ll teach me

@Soontobe60

Don't get out much, do you?

Some parents are particularly stupid, when telling their children to lie, post about how wonderful their holiday is on social media and include a post about how of course for school ‘they are so poorly ). That invariably gets back to school.

Trust me, everyone knows!

Some children at my DC’s school go abroad for 3-4 weeks! I’m astonished tbh, no idea if they get fined but I’d imagine the fine would be substantial if so
No the fine is £60 per parent per absence for one week or four, or makes no difference.

Children should never be asked to lie. Ever.

However families should be allowed to go on holiday in term time as long as attendance and attainment are otherwise fine.

If a “sick” child comes on and tells us (any staff) that they have been on holiday then the attendance mark IS changed accordingly.

If the Headteacher tells you she is going to fine you then (in an English state school) she is lying as it is not the school that fines but the LA. The school doesn't get the money from the fine either.

It is not abuse but very wrong to encourage a child to lie; you tell them to lie about illness/holiday and it’s okay so how will they know it’s not okay when “Uncle Harry” tells them to lie about XYZ?

It is your choice to take your children out of school....have the decency to take responsibility. If you believe it is justified then own it....if you need to lie then you know you are in the wrong....

MyDcAreMarvel depends on your authority. Some charge the £60 per parent per child per session missed, which can equate to £240 per day!

Bear in mind private schools and grammars don’t fine the parents of their students - and so rich parents often do take their kids away during term time.

1. Grammar Schools certainly do unauthorised absence which can lead to an LEA fine.

1. Private School parents typically don’t because a) the kids get tonnes of holiday b) when you’re directly paying you want your money’s worth

This, from a poster who has just called another "dramatic":

the headteacher rang me and asked me if we had a term time holiday as if so she was going to fine me - I asked her if she had any proof; she did not; so told her to piss off and to not call me about it again.

"Told her to piss off" - Yeah, sure you did.
Somebody's either being a drama-queen themselves, or their pants are on fire.

However families should be allowed to go on holiday in term time as long as attendance and attainment are otherwise fine.

But the HT can’t predict that. If a parent books a holiday in October for Easter no one knows what the child’s attendance will be in the interim.

she did not; so told her to piss off and to not call me about it again.

Bet you didn’t.

Bear in mind private schools and grammars don’t fine the parents of their students

Grammar schools certainly do!

so told her to piss off and to not call me about it again.

Chinny reckon!

I once went on holiday a day before the end of term and I phoned in sick, from the airport! It wasn't a case of it being cheaper, the tour we were doing went on the Friday.

We've took our DS out of school early, normally 2 days before May / Oct half term to get much cheaper holidays. I've always told the truth though, as DS is autistic and would tell everyone about his holidays anyway.
We've never been fined, his primary HT is very pragmatic although it does go down as unauthorised absence.

DS is moving on to secondary and I think they're much more strict.

On the subject of fines, I wouldn't mind if it went direct to the school rather than into council coffers.

Tantamount to abuse
Iv never heard something so ridiculous! I don't call taking your child on a holiday child abuse
I think you should stop being so opinionated and worry about your own children, and not other peoples! I honestly couldn't get so worked up about something that doesn't concern me.

We have it so much easier in Ireland. My kids go in every year and let teacher know when we are going on holidays as we always go term time. No lies, teacher knows they will be absent etc. Could not cope with the stress of being fined for taking my own children out of school. YOu lot have my sympathies.

Just fucking ha at the medical note that can be whipped out of your ass on the fifth day of illness. Presuming in the third day your child is still unwell and it looks like there will be further days of illness and then if you are lucky you'll get a drs appt. sometime in the next fortnight...
Or, are you supposed to lie and pretend there is a more serious medical event to the surgery to jump through the admin hoops of some attendance officer?

@zeezee3

*@Soontobe60

Don't get out much, do you?*

What's your point? 🤷🏼‍♀️

MyDcAreMarvel depends on your authority. Some charge the £60 per parent per child per session missed, which can equate to £240 per day!
No they don’t the fines are set by law and are the same across England.