To have an abortion in these circumstances?

[Someone9]

This week I found out that I’m pregnant. We have 18 month old twins. This pregnancy was very much unplanned (contraception failure) and I’m so very torn over what to do.

Up until a few months ago my marriage was basically hanging on by a thread. It’s the usual cliche I’m afraid, in that DH was utterly useless when our children were born which caused huge resentment. I’d never experienced such loneliness, disappointment and sadness as I did in those early months and walked around with a physical ache in my chest. I very nearly ended our relationship over this but things gradually improved (somewhat) as the DC got a little older so I decided to stay for now and try and make things work and we have been in a much better place of late.

DH wants to go ahead with this pregnancy but I told him I was considering a termination. When I laid out my concerns about him pulling his weight when the baby arrived he got defensive and wouldn’t commit to this. He suggested getting a cleaner in once a week. I said that’s all well and good but there’s still things that need doing on a daily basis. It’s as though he thinks his penis will fall off if he picks the Hoover up every once in awhile. I had to end the conversation as I could feel all that old anger bubbling inside me and I knew I was close to tears.

This was three days ago and he’s since acted as though nothing’s wrong. Neither of us have brought up the pregnancy and I haven’t told him yet that I’ve booked an appointment for an abortion next week.

I’d be a fool to go through with this when he’s practically told me he’s going to be useless, wouldn’t I? I’m desperately sad as I always wanted three DC and I know in different circumstances I’d be thrilled about this pregnancy. I’m so worried that I’ll feel eternal guilt/regret if I terminate but on the flip side if I go ahead with the pregnancy and my marriage ends as a result, then I’ll end up as a single parent to three and know I’d struggle to cope.

I’m torturing myself and can’t tell anyone in real life so would really appreciate some insight. WWYD?

OP, either way, get a referral for relationship counselling. It's very easy for strangers on the internet to decide 'LTB' based on one post you've written while (justifiably!) angry. It's not the whole relationship or whole person. It's not so easy to just boot your husband out and break up your home, finances, life with children.

Work on your marriage first.

Get the cleaner either way- he's not contributing practically so he can contribute financially and outsource some of his responsibilities that way.

Get counselling. Tell this dickhead how you feel properly. Have a professional challenge his beliefs and expectations about marriage and children. Have a professional help you explain the toll this is taking on you. Give it a proper go before you make a big decision.

What are your finances like? Do you have all joint accounts and assets? Do you have money in the budget for a mother's helper/nanny for while you're on maternity and afterwards? If he has seperate money, he needs to put his hand in his pocket to make up for his personal shortfall.

Terminating a pregnancy when you wanted three children is a hard and personal decision. I don't think anyone can make it for you.

Be kind to yourself.

he’s quite vocal about his views on abortion “every child deserves a chance”

When you add that to his views on housework and manhood, he's coming across as quite awful, actually. Leaving this pregnancy aside, I'm not sure I would want a man like that too closely involved in my children's upbringing. So sorry, OP.

You have no guarantee that the marriage will get better if you abort this child, especially as you both seem to want the baby.You may well be the one to sound the death knell on the marriage as your husband has said that he does not agree. His grief( and possibly yours) may make your anxieties about housework seem insignificant by comparison. TheStuffedPenguin has a perspective that is worth some thought.

If you can get some help with the cleaning for a few hours each week you might be pleasantly surprised at how much difference that makes. I found that knowing the cleaner was coming "made" me tidy up and so it was a win win.

Also, despite what he said about not promising to help more, he may well do so. Perhaps you can gently allocate responsibilities / jobs. My husband ( different generation) did very little around the house and with the children but he did e.g. cut the grass and do the DIY, also most of the driving especially on UK holidays. That kind of help is not valued until it is gone.

Now you have at least started the discussion, put your new determinations in place asap and you may find everything improves.

I had a termination for similar reasons although I already had three children. I told my OH I wouldn't forgive him either way: I would lose a child I'd have wanted and loved in any other circumstance or I'd be left floundering coping on my own with another baby whilst his life remained the same and struggle with the resentment it would bring.
He was unmoved by my honesty and I went ahead. We split up as any respect I had for him died.

He said ultimately it was my decision

Oh I hate it when men say this. It makes it sound like they support you either way. But really it just means all the responsibility and decision making and the weight of it is all on your shoulders. Then they can just shrug and say, 'it was what you wanted'.

I’m sorry you faced this too surrealreal

Can I ask if you ended the relationship straight after? What was his reaction to the termination?

Yes he always leaves decisions regarding the children up to me also - so if it ends up to be the “wrong” decision he can’t be “blamed” so to speak. Or he’ll suddenly start giving input when I’ve already gone ahead with something and make me question myself - it’s maddening.

OP, I agree every child deserves a chance but also every child deserves a father who supports and cares for them and their mother!

Your choice l think especially as your DH sounds like a selfish child. 3 under 3 sounds like a nightmare to me, if he hasn't stepped up with twins / first children then l doubt he will do this time. As others have said then he might see more of your children and make more effort if you split which is sad and depressing. Personally l would consider if you want to have the baby and then decide what to do about your marriage

As others have said, you have every right to have an abortion for whatever reason. I don’t know what I’d do in your circumstances but it is a really sad situation.

If you do carry on with your pregnancy, I think you have to be prepared for things to be worse than last time in the early days. I have a strong marriage but the first 6 weeks with my second were marred by arguments etc as we were both tired, stressed and found it so much harder than with our first because of the needs of the toddler (who was actually an angel). I think this is quite common but if there is already a lot of resentment and tension, you might not recover from that initial hard period. I’d have found it so hard if I hadn’t had the confidence to know it was a temporary phase.

Not true you will have nowhere to go. If you are married you may get to stay in, or share of matrimonial home. Get some legal advice when the dust settles. You will get child maintainance.
If he won't do the work can he pay for mothers help, nanny, nursery for older dc, au pair if you have space? Ready dinners, send laundry out?
Seperate the issues of marriage and baby. Will he step up a bit if he thinks you are not going to have a child without support? This shouldn't be a lever, but may be a consideration.
Do what is best for you and the children you have. Think long term. Best of luck

Ultimately, I think you should decide whether to have the baby or not based on doing it alone, because it looks like, either way, you'll be doing the vast majority of parenting.

Then decide about the relationship.

God I feel for you.

I have twins who were almost three when third baby was born. It wasn’t any easier with three than two what a ludicrous suggestion from someone upthread. Imagine trying to potty train two toddler on your own, trying to sleep train two toddlers on your own....

Anyway I digress (sorry).

The feeling I get from your posts is that your relationship is dead in the water. He doesn’t want to step up in any capacity apart from maybe it suits him to blame you for a choice you have to make. He sounds like a pro-lifer - wants you to bear a baby but has no intention of supporting you, even though it’s his baby.

I can’t tell you what to do but YANBU to want a termination and to have one under the circumstances

You have told him you are thinking about having a termination unless he can pull his weight ? Blackmail or what ? Wow....imagine if the situation was reversed " My husband has told me to have a termination because I was too lazy/ didn't keep the house clean etc etc "...

If someone were actively trying for the most ridiculous take on the matter thestuffedpenguin, they would struggle to better yours.

OP, two things. The first is that he doesn't actually think every child deserves a chance. He's saying he does, but judge him by his actions not his words. If he did genuinely hold that view, he would be assuring you and showing you with his actions that he'll do what is necessary for you to feel sufficiently reassured to continue with the pregnancy.

The second point is that, like many others on this thread, I think you may not survive this anyway (and wouldn't necessarily want to, with such an obnoxious man). So I'd make the decision about the pregnancy independently of relationship considerations, and probably I assume I would be doing it by myself either way.

MoanyAnna: TheStuffedPenguin has a perspective that is worth some thought.

Really? I thought what Penguin said - You have told him you are thinking about having a termination unless he can pull his weight ? Blackmail or what ? Wow.... - was awful.

OP isn't trying to blackmail anyone. She's distraught about the prospect of terminating this pregnancy but needs to know what support she can expect so she can make a good decision. Her DH has failed to offer the reassurance she needs. Suggesting that he might surprise her after all with 'help that is not valued until it is gone' - as though she's somehow foolishly mistaken about the facts - is wildly optimistic at best, and mainly unkind.

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Someone upthread said "work on your marriage" and I just wanted to point out that's a crock of shit as advice goes. You're already doing all the work, he's made it amply clear that he's got no intention of doing any work ever.

"Working on your marriage" is something couples choose to undertake together, not a euphemism for "woman does all the work, thus covering for man being a lazy fucker."

I'm in camp "your relationship is fucked either way." Not saying LTB this instant -: I know it's not that easy. But do start your preparations.

Photocopies of all legal and financial documents, start squirrelling money away for a divorce lawyer, possible deposit on flat (though as parent with the bulk of the childcare commitments you should be able to stay where you are), job plans.

As for the pregnancy - do what is best for you, not him, not some imaginary ideal of marriage.

@RussianSpamBot realistically though if they have another child then it will impact on her negatively which may then impact on her ability to care for their existing children. In many ways it is him who has forced her into this situation by being a shit Dad / husband.

Ignore @thestuffedpenguin
You are entitled to proceed exactly as you wish. Only you can really make the decision.
If you want opinions, for what it is worth, if it were me, I would have the baby. It won't be small and helpless forever and life will get less exhausting. If you'd always wanted three, this might make you feel your family was complete. They'd be full siblings too. I would worry I would feel guilty about a termination.
As I said, that's just my opinion. Others will feel differently and no one has the right to tell you what to do.
I hope this range of viewpoints is helpful as you think it through. Best of luck with whatever you decide

Yes EL8888 if anything, there's a stronger argument that the husband is the blackmailer here. I wouldn't have used the term for either of them, but he is certainly forcing a very unpleasant situation and decision.

OP, I was in your situation exactly - I had a 1 year old baby and my marriage was hanging on by a string because my husband was so fucking useless.

I had an abortion, I could barely breathe at the thought of having another baby. I was SO HAPPY to have it over, I skipped out of the clinic and never looked back.

Marriage got back on track at some point, I had another baby (same husband), and things are much better now but I still shudder at how difficult those early years were.

Good luck.

could you bear to live with yourself if you terminated your pg just because your dh couldn't be arsed to hoover and wash up? That's an awful reason.

Who are you to judge whether someone else's reason for having a termination is good enough?

You're also massively oversimplifying the situation if you think this is just about hoovering or washing up. It's about their relationship, which was "hanging by a thread" mere months ago. It's about OP wanting her DH to step up and make an equal contribution to parenting their DC, which he failed to do with their twins and has made it pretty clear he isn't willing to commit to this time around either. That demonstrates a fundamental lack of respect for the OP, lack of regard for his existing DC and a complete lack of remorse for being so unsupportive in their early weeks and months that OP felt completely alone and in despair.
Is it really any wonder that OP has serious concerns about adding to the family when her marriage is clearly on rocky ground as it is?

I know a lot of posters are saying something along the lines of "the marriage is doomed either way so you might as well have the baby" but I think some people on this thread are really minimising the potential difficulty in raising three very young children alone. OP would be perfectly reasonable to have a termination for any reason that is important to her, but honestly, who could blame her if she decides she isn't willing or able be a single parent to twin toddlers and a newborn? That's a daunting prospect at the best of time let alone whilst you're in the process of rebuilding your life after the breakdown of a marriage, which does seem likely to happen in the not too distant future.

Thank you MinisterforCheekyFuckery I had tried to type out a response to the hoover/wash up comments but couldn’t accurately get across what I was trying to say - you articulated it much better than I could.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to post. He came home early from work and we had a heated exchange about the situation which probably wasn’t wise...

It ended with me saying I’ve made my mind up and won’t be going through with it and him saying that’s my choice but I’ll have to deal with the “consequences” when I asked what he meant by that he wouldn’t answer and stormed out. It’s going to be a very frosty atmosphere this week

any thoughts on adoption op?

I think it is ultimately your choice but I will say, my h was a bit rubbish when our older two were little (for a mixture of reasons including his issues and some of mine I.e not being able to let go) but when our third was born he did step up to the mark and has been very hands on since. My disclaimer being that I wouldn’t have asked for help before DC3 and did after and have done ever since.

Someone sorry I didn't see your reply to me earlier, to answer your questions, yes it was pretty much instant, I made sure it wasn't down to hormones then finished it with him. I'd not got myself pregnant but dealt with it 100% myself. I couldn't abide the sight of him tbh knowing how heartless he really is.
How did he react? Indifferent. Aside from him commenting that he 'didn't think I was the type of woman to do that' and some other disgusting things I won't type about terminations (whilst knowing that if I'd had another baby, he would never have changed a nappy, never have taken charge of the others whilst I recovered, never attended a school event, never have done anything that 'wasn't his job'= made it impossible for me), it was clear he wasn't affected. He even mentioned bumping into someone a few weeks after and I said, 'oh I don't remember, where was I?' And he said, 'oh getting your nails done or something' then I realised it was the day I had the abortion. He hasn't given it a second thought.
You do what you have to do, make the decision you have to live with, either way OP. Good luck.