To think it's not fair transwomen get hair removal on the NHS but women with PCOS don't?! **Title edited by MNHQ**

[newyeardontcare]

This is quite frankly bullshit.

You do realise you're denying the existence of a group of people here? Invalidating them

Not really . Saying that trans women are male is not the same as saying they don't exist. It's ab undeniable fact. If they aren't actually male biologically then why do they have to "transition", ie changing from one state to another?

actually I wouldn't mind a world where one can genuinely change sex...father a child, then give birth...like in the Iain Banks culture novels. I think that would be pretty wonderful for equality!

What worries me is a world where we pretend that following or crossing gender stereotypes actually determines which gender you are....and selling the lie to children that they can actually be the sex they want to be...when with current medical technology they can't.

@M3lon

God almighty. What a nightmare. Equality?

@Janettomas

You said you wouldn’t mind, so I’m going to have to call you stupid, I’m afraid.

why a nightmare?

It might be fun to drive a penis for a change....

yeah - I really can't find any evidence that a transwoman has ever been pregnant, let alone given birth. It says its never happened in wikipedia..so that's case closed as far as I can be arsed at gone 3am.

Janet isn't necessarily stupid though...its easy to misgoogle...

My friend with PCOS had hair removal on the NHS

@M3lon

You do realise you're denying the existence of a group of people here? Invalidating them

I did think this was kinda silly though. And she said she wouldn’t mind!

It might be fun to drive a penis for a change

@MrsFoxPlus4

Nicely back on track there

I was reading and commenting as I seen. The initial statement was they don’t. When it’s acrually possible they do.

Gender identity clinics have waits typically 18m, but up to 3 yrs is possible, to commence treatment.

MNers report 6-7m waits to wait for treatment for infertility treatment linked to PCOS.

6 or 7

Does Janet think transwomen who are biological males have wombs? Perhaps you could humour us and post a link to a birth .....

Omg janet. How stupid do you have to be to believe a bloke gave birth? I don’t know whether to tut about the state of the education system, point and laugh, or recoil in horror that anyone could genuinely believe it. You do know that transwomen are biological males, janet? You know, penis, bollocks, all that Jazz? Not a uterus in sight, love. No babies coming out of transwomen. Not until they con a few more biological women into selling body parts to men, and figuring out how to plug it all in to a male physiology and keeping it in working order without killing the host.
Maybe you fell for the old ‘man gives birth’ story? The one where loads of women get their breasts cut off, whack themselves full of T to grow a beard, and then change their minds and decide they want to be upduffed. As long as they get called pregnant person, obv.
Women. All women. Just with drug induced facial hair. The human body is very clever. You can persuade it to do different things if you take enough drugs. Women can grow beards. Men can get treatment on the nhs to get rid of theirs. And grow s reasonable pair of moobs easily enhanced with a couple of silicone bags.
But no man has ever given birth. Especially when calling himself a trans woman.

lljkk That's a bait and switch, PCOS starts around puberty. I would also much prefer to have my PCOS than gender dysphoria.

As this thread has been used to repeatedly call trans women men and not talk about PCOS I'd say my earlier point about the article serving to stoke up transphobia has been proven true.

As someone with a condition that I will have for the rest of my life which could, as I age, cause the NHS significant sums of money, and effects me now on a daily basis, which could be significantly improved at a cost of £6 a year which they will not fund, I am fed up at continually seeing the NHS spend money on things that are not illnesses that actually stop you living a reasonably productive life and look after yourself.

This is NOT what the NHS was set up to do. And if we DO want the NHS to provide the same number of IVF treatments to everyone, hair removal for everyone, then we all need to be prepared to see our tax levels go up to Scandinavian levels (ie, at least 30 p in the pound). Sadly, the majority of people won't countenance that.

You do realise you're denying the existence of a group of people here? Invalidating them

Yes I do deny the existence of biological men who can give birth because it isn’t true.

It’s discrimination against women who are not being forcefully lobbied for in the same way.

I think Janet has got a bit confused and doesn't know what a transwoman is.

No transwoman has ever given birth. Some transmen have. But that is hardly surprising given that they are female.

I had to google Ariadne Oliver. It was too tempting

I found two people named that. One is a character in Agatha Christie novels. Fictional. Not trans. I think.

The other is a Brazilian shemale porn star who apparently loves anal. To click on a link about her would mean I'd have to watch her do all manner of things to men and I don't have the stomach for that this morning. There was no information about her miraculous birth, alas. I'm actually disappointed

I would also much prefer to have my PCOS than gender dysphoria.

Gosh I wouldn't. Which isn't to say that dysphoria isn't serious at times but I have experienced quite significant body dysmorphia in my life and with time and therapy and work it's gone away. I now get to live life feeling comfortable in my own skin and focusing on other things. Someone who had pcos at 15 might still be struggling with it 20 years on, by contrast, and not being taken very seriously. But it depends on the individual.

I would like to see a nominal cost for procedures such as this though- maybe a sort of earning up to £20,000 P/A, you pay X, earning up to £30,000 P/A you pay Y

We already have this - a percentage based tax system...

which could be significantly improved at a cost of £6 a year which they will not fund, I am fed up at continually seeing the NHS spend money on things that are not illnesses that actually stop you living a reasonably productive life and look after yourself.

This.

I am being told I can’t have medication which I find helpful because it’s too expensive to justify as the pain relief can’t be quantified. It costs roughly £3 per day. I was told this in the same conversation as me explaining that the pain I live with makes me feel suicidal.

However, I do think if something is available for a symptom (ie hair growth in trans women) it should be available to anyone who needs it. Or not at all. I lean towards not at all, but given the impact pain has on my mental health, I guess I can sympathise if hairgrowth causes similar feelings.

Isn't the only group of people who's existence is being denied natal/ biological women?
We're being told our biology is unimportant, and it is wrong to identify ourselves or with others depending on biological sex.
The voice and preferences and struggles of biological women are being silences under the guise of transphobia.

Body and facial hair is a normal part of being a woman. Even for those without pcos, if you have thick dark hair, then in your 40s facial hair removal is likely to be a daily occurance. If you look at asian or arabic women, we are very hairy and without hair removal it is noticeable.

The point is transwomen seem to think that being a woman is easy, and when things are not easy for them that it is transphobia.
The reality is we know that people take womens struggles, womens pain, womens mentl and physical health less seriously then mens. If you become a woman then you will lose the privilege that comes with being a man.

Biological women wish to have spaces with other biological women who understand their experiences, fears, struggles Etc without them being explicitly stated.
For women wont normally explicitly state things like the money, time and effort spent on hair removal as that's just normal life to them. Likewise theres other experiences.

If you want to be a woman then why would you expect different treatment to biological women? It makes no sense.

Is this actually accurate? Not being antagonistic and have pcos myself but do you actually know that trans women get to have it in your area but you don’t?

Just thinking that as it’s a post code lottery some areas do get it and some don’t, whether they are trans or not.

It might be worth writing to the nhs to find out if this is true?

And to people saying hair removal shouldn’t be offered at all - shame on you. If you lived one day with pcos you would think differently. It is a medical condition and causes a lot of depression.

Cafe: read the NHS England recommendations pages. For PCOS-related facial hair growth, it says: "However, eflornithine cream isn't always available on the NHS, because some local NHS authorities have decided it's not effective enough to justify NHS prescription.
If you have unwanted hair growth, you may also want to remove the excess hair (by methods such as plucking, shaving, threading, creams or laser removal). Laser removal of facial hair may be available on the NHS in some parts of the UK."

This is what it says on the transgender page: "Adults with gender dysphoria should be referred to a specialist adult GIC. As with specialist children and young people GICs, these clinics can offer ongoing assessments, treatments, support and advice, including:
• mental health support, such as counselling
• cross-sex hormone treatment (see below)
• speech and language therapy – to help alter your voice, to sound more typical of your gender identity
• hair removal treatments, particularly facial hair
• peer support groups, to meet other people with gender dysphoria
• relatives' support groups, for your family"

Effectively, it's recommended that CCGs fund it for trans women but not for women.