Ian Huntley ! This is wrong...

[HJWT]

I just don't have words

read the thread. we're the majority. most people are fully aware that humans can't change sex
This really isn't the slam dunk of a point you seem to think it is.

I think this video by Posie Parker makes the point explicit.
(its very moving: its important because sex matters, language matters, girls and women matter)

We are WOMAN

Jane simply an advocate for extreme porn then (extreme as in permanent damage to body, not ‘a bit kinky’ for anyone reading this. Genuinely extreme stuff.)

Jane also said they had advised girl guides on safeguarding, which is nice to hear isn’t it?

background:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers

Generally no, but I don't think "trans woman" and "man" are interchangeable terms either, so I don't necessarily go XY = male sex = man = men's prison. IMO trans people by definition don't fit neatly into these boxes so I'd assess case by case with a high degree of scepticism.

You don't think prisons should be mixed sex. You think transwomen might be uncomfortable in male prisons. 99% of people on FWR think the same.

Including me.

Transwomen are men. They just are. But, given some have gender dysphoria, I understand they may not suit male facilities. (The fetishists, I don't give a toss about. Cross dressing is incredibly popular in prison. It's the top paraphilia).

But not suiting male facilities doesn't mean they go into the female facilities. Because what they think or feel is irrelevant to the female inmates.

I'm sure there are lots of people campaigning for better facilities on behalf of both sexes. Feminism is for the women tho.

Cross post vegemite thanks.

The Gordon pike case is especially concerning. Will there now be a review of the policies he was involved with putting in place? The SPS are now open to accusations that they let a sex offender set prison policy which could benefit sex offenders and give them access to victims.

Wasn’t there a convicted rapist and murdered invited to parliament to give advice on prisons?

It beggars belief. Why aren’t law abiding genuine transwomen being asked to be advisors? People like Miranda Yardley for example. Why aren’t their experiences being used? Why are the people advising government so often found to have somewhat dodgy pasts? There are plenty of decent, law abiding transwomen out there who would have been better placed to advise.

Why is no one doing due diligence? Why are people like Jess Bradley (NUS Officer currently under investigation for alleged flashing and allegedly having a blog containing child abuse images) being used as advisors?

Why?

And yes, transwomen are vulnerable in male estate (due to Male violence.)

The solution is a way of keeping them safe in the male estate - as other vulnerable prisoners should be - NOT to put them in with the women.

This is a male problem. Why are the women expected to solve it, and to be harmed by it.

And yes Jane Fae is a lifelong advocate for extreme porn (where damage to the vagina, breasts and anus leaves the viewer in serious doubt as to whether it is genuine). Fae allso wants to lower the legal age of the participants. And at the same time is advising girl guides. They also advised the government on transgender equality when Maria Miller first produced her report.

As did Jess Bradley.

Shon Faye is the one who said women, enjoy your erasure.

The people who are advising the government about what to do with men with gender dysphoria, are not men with gender dysphoria.

This really isn't the slam dunk of a point you seem to think it is.

(regarding humans inability to change sex)

Uh, it is. Transwomen are men. If you introduce a transwoman to a women'a single sex space you change that space to be mixed sex

do you think prisons should be mixed sex?

because if you think any transowmen at all belong in women's prison then you believe that prisons should be mixed sex

I don't necessarily go XY = male sex = man

what sex do you think people with XY chromosomes are then?

the inside of your head must be a strange and confusing place Fox

The people who are advising the government about what to do with men with gender dysphoria, are not men with gender dysphoria

Exactly. Men with genuine gender dysphoria are not being consulted, are facing serious abuse online and will probably be the ones most harmed by a backlash. That’s not Ok.

So these policies don’t help women, they don’t help people with gender dysphoria. Who do they help? Men who want access to women, preferably women in as vulnerable state as possible. That’s also not Ok.

The punishment is being locked up. Not being assaulted by a man as well. Or spending your sentence in fear of being assaulted by a Man.

I don't necessarily go XY = male sex = man

As a geneticist, I’d love to hear more about this. How does that work?

It was also Jane Fae who said of murder: 'A high proportion are domestic violence 'gone wrong'. A blow struck one time too many: an egg-shell skull.'

Wasn’t there a convicted rapist and murdered invited to parliament to give advice on prisons?

Karen Jones (aka Karen Lawson / Mark John Jones) was invited to speak at The House of Lords by Lord Patel in February 2018

background 2003
"A transsexual who tried to rape a woman in a terrifying attack just days after being released from a young offenders' institution was today jailed for life.

Karen Louise Lawson, 21, of no fixed abode, said she carried out the attack as a cry for help so that she could go back to prison and have the sex change operation she had needed all her life.

She pleaded guilty to the attack, which she committed in a transsexuals' shop called Transformations in Greater Manchester last year, but was jailed for life after a judge at Bolton Crown Court ruled that her second violent crime was not an exceptional case.

Just five days before she carried out the attack, Lawson, who was referred to as a woman throughout today's court hearing, had been freed on licence after serving half a five-year sentence for manslaughter in a male young offenders institution.

In 2001 Lawson, then aged just 18 and appearing under her original name of Mark John Jones, had been sentenced after pleading guilty to strangling her former lover when he reneged on an agreement to pay for her sex change operation."
www.standard.co.uk/news/transexual-rapist-jailed-6971617.html

February 2018
'Transgender activist jailed for killing her boyfriend and trying to rape shop assistant five days after being released from prison is invited to speak at HOUSE OF LORDS'
(extract)
"A transgender activist jailed for manslaughter and attempted rape was invited to give a speech in the House of Lords, MailOnline can reveal.

Karen Jones was asked by Lord Patel to talk about how the criminal justice system can better help transgender offenders.

Ms Jones, 34, who was born Mark Jones, is a convicted sex offender described by a judge as posing an 'extremely serious risk' to the public.

She was jailed for five years in 2001 after admitting suffocating and strangling 43-year-old partner Michael Cutler and leaving his decomposing body wrapped in a sheet in their Manchester home.

Five days after being released early on licence in 2002, Jones brutally assaulted a female shop assistant after gagging her mouth with a lemon and trying to rape her. She was sentenced to life in prison.

She said the attack was as a cry for help so that she could go back to prison and have the sex change operation she had needed all her life.

But since being freed has become a motivational speaker, having also given a speech on transgender issues to Yorkshire Ambulance.

Lord Patel of Bradford, who is chairman of the Community Innovations Enterprise, which aims to change government policy on a wide range of diversity issues, was fully aware of Ms Jones' criminal past.

A spokesman said: 'As far as we are concerned she has done her time and paid her debt to society.

However Harry Fletcher, founder of Victim's Rights Campaign, said: 'For the sake of the victims, it is essential that those invited to speak at Parliament who have been convicted of crimes as serious as this should undergo a risk assessment to ensure they no longer pose a danger to the public.

'That risk assessment should be transparent available to public scrutiny.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5440153/Trans-convict-invited-speak-House-Lords.html

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3180059-To-think-if-youve-killed-raped-women-we-dont-give-a-flying-fuck-what-you-think-on-any-given-matter

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3180059-To-think-if-youve-killed-raped-women-we-dont-give-a-flying-fuck-what-you-think-on-any-given-matter

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3192486-Lord-Patel-Karen-Jones-thread-anyone-want-to-go-to-House-of-Lords-to-talk-to-Lord-Patel

And yes Jane Fae is a lifelong advocate for extreme porn (where damage to the vagina, breasts and anus leaves the viewer in serious doubt as to whether it is genuine)

Oh and who describes themself as a feminist. You know, an advocate for women. As long as those women are younger than currently legal and are participating in extreme porn.

But, unless you knew it, you would read all about Jane using the pronoun she and the description woman. And describing their particular campaigns as dealing with 'online censorship' A euphemism so damaging, it's difficult to believe.

So YES when it is men who do the most killing and men who commit the most sexual offences from wanking up your skirt on the tube to raping children, it does bloody matter what we call people.

As a geneticist, I’d love to hear more about this. How does that work?

Easy, Bowl. Just dispose of language as a construct that uses defined words in order to convey meaning, and anything's possible.

and anything's possible.

...and entirely deliberate.

I would guess that nonexistantfox might mean XY = male sex = transwoman ?

Apologies if not non. I can sort of understand that, but would still segregate according to sex as I don’t know how you could distinguish between those with body dysmorphia and those who are out to game the system.

Acknowledging transwoman and transmen are still biologically men and women respectively but have different needs and seeking to find ways to address them (third spaces?) seems sensible to me.

It was also Jane Fae who said of murder: 'A high proportion are domestic violence 'gone wrong'. A blow struck one time too many: an egg-shell skull.'

Which, ironically, would be the ultimate argument for sex segregation. Can't have them muscular males, however they may identify, get into trouble just 'cause them egg-shell skulled females couldn't withstand some a tad too forceful pat on their heads.

As did Jess Bradley.

Jess Bradley: influential non-binary transwoman, founding member of Action for Trans Health, TELI, NUS Trans Officer (currently suspended due to allegations of sexual misconduct/abuse)

Video by Rose of Dawn (transsexual) with important investigation into Bradley's influence and motivations:

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325623-Jess-Bradley-a-government-advisor-on-womens-rights-suspended-by-NUS-over-indecent-blog-Part-iii

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3320513-Jess-Bradley-first-transgender-student-officer-suspended-after-flashing-photos

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3321764-Jess-Bradley-suspended-Part-II

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3323623-Who-is-really-funding-Jess-Bradleys-defence

I think Jess Bradley is (was?) the spokesperson for prison matters within TELI. Bradley is a prison abolisionist who is especially concerned that all trans prisoners should be released.

TELI is very influential with barristers, law academics etc members:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374926-What-influence-does-TELI-have-on-government-public-services-and-charities-policies-Co-founders-include-Jess-Bradley-Tara-Hewitt-and-Michelle-Hudson
TELI members & Women's Equality Party:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325882-WEP-conference-questions-for-panel-of-trans-rights-advocating-barristers

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3352843-First-there-was-Jess-Bradley-then-the-Challenors-now-Edward-Lord

And yes Jane Fae is a lifelong advocate for extreme porn (where damage to the vagina, breasts and anus leaves the viewer in serious doubt as to whether it is genuine)

Oh and who describes themself as a feminist. You know, an advocate for women.

Jane Fae speech at 'Slut Walk London' 2012

Easy, Bowl. Just dispose of language as a construct that uses defined words in order to convey meaning, and anything's possible.

Lewis Carroll, 'Through the Looking Glass'

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master-that's all."

I don't necessarily go XY = male sex = man

I don't necessarily go death = end of life = nothing after. I hold a belief. It's a personal belief, I accept others wouldn't agree and hold different beliefs, and we're a tolerant society. Different beliefs are respected and as a society for centuries we haven't forced one belief to be conformed to by everyone whether they hold it or not.

“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”

“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”

“You are a slow learner, Winston."
"How can I help it? How can I help but see what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."
"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane.”

“But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.”

― George Orwell, 1984

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

projection by trans activists onto Ministry of Justice this summer

I think Jess Bradley is (was?) the spokesperson for prison matters within TELI. Bradley is a prison abolisionist who is especially concerned that all trans prisoners should be released.

Karen White, Davina Ayrton, Alex Stewart, Sophie Eastwood, Jessica Winfield, Nicola Huntley.... nah, don't see a problem there...

I don't necessarily go XY = male sex = man

Whatever it is you are trying to convey, this isnt the way to do it. Pretending that words have different meanings, in order to put forward a point of view just makes your meaning incomprehensible and open to criticism.

If you mean that men who identify as women require different services/facilities to men who don't identify as women, then say so. It's not a difficult concept. Anyone can grasp it.

Saying they are women, and therefore they need women's facilities is factually wrong and doesnt address what you are probably trying to convey. Unless you are trying to convey that there is literally no difference between men and women, in which case talk to the wall (you won't be alone, there are many people who want to maintain this).

Just dispose of language as a construct that uses defined words in order to convey meaning, and anything's possible

Well ain’t that true.

You can’t solve a problem if you can’t define it. You can’t solve a problem if you can’t talk about it. What kind of society stops people talking about stuff through fear.

Oh yes! The ones that are basket cases. You thought being prosecuted for blasphemy was something that only happens in hot far away places with bonkers theocratic rulers? Nopeity nope! Coming to a court near you soon!

Maria Maclachlan - forced to refer to her male attacker in court as ‘she’ and when she slipped up the judge rebuked her and reduced his sentence. That’s a six foot two male hitting a tiny sixty year old woman, in public, in an unprovoked attack.

Graham linehan (he of Father Ted) warned by police for a tweet in which he committed Thoughtcrime.

Countless women kicked off twitter for saying men can’t change sex.

Prof Rosa Freedman, having 3am phone calls threatening rape and her office door pissed on because she is gender critical

We need to be worried about this. This isn't the mark of a sensible, liberal democracy. This is what basket case countries do. Why is it happening here??