Ian Huntley ! This is wrong...

[HJWT]

I just don't have words

Or that it's impossible to determine biological sex.

Believe what you want. Crack on. Go for it. You can respect people's beliefs, which is why I don't believe transwomen should be in male prisons if they prefer not to be, and that trans separate units should be available for safety, privacy, dignity.

But reality is a fact, biology is a fact, it's a normal and widespread belief that reality and biology are facts, and I believe women have the right to sex segregation regardless of a small group of men's personal beliefs about their gender identity. Live and let live.

The idea that it’s impossible to determine sex

When DH and I decided to try to conceive we didn’t wonder which one would get pregnant

Do be serious

'could you please define man?
No, I can't, that's my point.'

So, for you the word 'man' has become meaningless and therefore useless. Useless for communication, and certainly you surely wouldn't want legislation or regulations re prisons written using undefinable words?

Fortunately most people who speak English (either as their first or additional language) have no such confusion. 'Adult human male '.

To clarify, the longer version of but would still segregate according to sex as I don’t know how you could distinguish between those with body dysphoria and those who are out to game the system is that in the past, I would have been happy to accommodate dysphoric people in some sex-segregated spaces (that didn't match their actual sex) as a kindness to alleviate any suffering.

Now I see that just because I was happy with it, it was wrong to assume that I had the right to override anyone else's discomfort. I have also changed my mind about any exceptions to sex segregation as the trans umbrella - as per Stonewall's definition - has been broadened so much that trans doesn't just mean people with dysphoria but crossdressers etc. There would be no system to game when the system (under self-ID at least) would be whoever declares themselves to be a man/woman instantly becomes one.

I don't see how we can narrow the definition of trans back down to just those with dysphoria and in addition to this, now that there's been such a concerted effort to erode women's ability to say no to men in their spaces, I would campaign for third spaces but would want to maintain sex-segregated spaces as well. That would protect everyone without compromising on anyone's safety, dignity and privacy. Isn't that a workable solution nonexistantfox?

quite debilitating this genderist ideology

my 4 year old DS is quite clear about the meaning of the word man NonExistentFox

if your ideology prevents you from understanding it, it may be time to reconsider your life choices...

Did I say it was a a piece of piss?

man=adult human male?

Ok. Is that Jewish adulthood at 13, or legal adulthood, at 18 or 21, or physical maturity, which varies for everyone, or brain maturity, which also varies for everyone but usually takes a bit longer?

But reality is a fact, biology is a fact, it's a normal and widespread belief that reality and biology are facts

Science is the work of understanding in progress, it's not a monolith with which to bludgeon people, and its biggest hindrance is the illusion of certainty. And as I'm sure you know from Gödel, complete determinability isn't possible. And if more of you acknowledged that instead of slamming down "biology is biology" type redundancies or reassuring yourselves with statements such as "nothing has changed since we were Neanderthals", you might be worth talking to.

I'm actually sick to death of this painful, gleeful, intellectual masturbation over the definition of men and women. It's really quite embarrassing.

If you have to disappear up your own fundament, invoking, for example, clownfish, intersex people or people who, strangely enough, don't always conform to the hopelessly rigid stereotypes society dictates, then go and do it elsewhere where you can impress a five year old.

(And you know about the clownfish, right?)

Science is the work of understanding in progress

my lovely, if you have discovered that humans can change sex, or that there are more than two sexes in humans, you'll be up for a Nobel Prize

Which particular scientific advance did you want to discuss?

And you know about the clownfish, right?)

Seriously, what were the chances?

:D

You missed out cuttlefish and strawberries.

man=adult human male?

Ok. Is that Jewish adulthood at 13, or legal adulthood, at 18 or 21, or physical maturity, which varies for everyone, or brain maturity, which also varies for everyone but usually takes a bit longer?

So you're arguing the age part but not the sex part.

I'm still tickled by the idea of heterosexual couples all over the country spending their evenings scissors, paper, stoning to decide who has to breast feed the baby tonight

determining the sex of humans.....so tricky

And you know about the clownfish, right?)

Seriously, what were the chances?

Ok. Is that Jewish adulthood at 13, or legal adulthood, at 18 or 21, or physical maturity, which varies for everyone, or brain maturity, which also varies for everyone but usually takes a bit longer

Adult human male. Human, of the male sex, who is fully grown.

Any man who doesn't fit that, line 'em up in front of me and I'll sort it out.

I guarantee, it will take a lot less time than rebutting daft arguments over fish and bar mitzvahs.

So you're arguing the age part but not the sex part.

I'm keeping on about the clownfish, because it's not like they're slime mold, they're are vertebrates who show sex isn't binary.

And don't knock intellectual masturbation, without it we would still be the dark ages.

they're are vertebrates who show sex isn't binary.

No, they're vertebrates which can change between the two sexes.

And completely irrelevant to discussions about mammals.

I'm not a mathematician, but I'm not sure Gödel's incompleteness theorems are applicable outside that field. . Maybe you were thinking of Popper and falsifiability?

I'm keeping on about the clownfish, because it's not like they're slime mold, they're are vertebrates who show sex isn't binary.

How does this manifest itself in mammals exactly?

I'm knocking your particular kind of intellectual masturbation, which is at woman's expense. With your nose snuffling deep in the chum bucket of their oppression...I think is the saying.

And yeah, you go and knock yourself out with clownfish. Or more likely, one out.

if more of you acknowledged.....you might be worth talking to

So basically you believe this.

Only your beliefs are valid.

Anyone who does not believe what you believe is beneath your notice and unworthy of time and attention.

Yep. That kind of thinking goes either with religious extremism or a cult. I agree, if you can't tolerate or respect other people having beliefs different to yours there probably isn't much point in you talking to them.

in fact for clownfish sex is binary - the male fish changes to female. that's binary (2). I believe what you mean is that they demonstrate that some vertebrates can change sex

some fungi for example do have more than 2 sexes. reproduction must be complicated.

doesn't prove that zebras or colubus monkeys or humans can change sex though, or that these species have more than 2 sexes

I think you have lost sight of what sex is for - reproduction

I think you have lost sight of what sex is for - reproduction

In case anyone is having problems with the definition of 'sex', this is nice and clear.

www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/sex_1

Oh man I go to pick the kids up and you all get sciency..

Clown fish have adult gills. So I can live underwater right? I mean we are both vertebrates!

Bats - can fly. So I can fly too, because we are both vertebrates!

Daffodils and me? Both eukaryotes! IM SAT HERE PHOTOSYNTHESISING MY ARSE OFF!

Humans have two sexes.

But let’s talk science. I’ll put the kettle on. What exactly did you think proves humans don’t have a bimosal sex distribution? I have the Nobel committee on speed dial.