To think that if you’re told a phrase is offensive, you don’t insist on using it?

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Yes, a TAAT. The context is that we explained to mumsnet HQ that the phrase ‘beyond the Pale’ is found eyebrow-raising by many (but not all) Irish people.

The Pale was the name given to an area of Ireland under English rule and those outside that area were considered uncivilised aka ‘beyond the pale’. This is a phrase that is only used with raised eyebrows in Ireland and certainly feels inappropriate, if not offensive, coming from an English person.

Mumsnet use it as part of their racism guidelines as in that they only ban language that is ‘beyond the pale’. Mumsnet accept the origins of the phrase. However, they insist on using this phrase to describe whether something is or is not racist.

Given the context, AIBU in requesting that Mumsnet find another phrase in their racism guidelines?

Butchyrestingface - I said that earlier on in the thread, so it's not just you. It got either ignored or missed though. Op has a very inflammatory username that could make some feel unwelcome or vulnerable on here. A lot will feel offended by it. As I said where does the policing stop?

I suspect @IstandwithPosie and I probably have very similar views on a particular subject. Nonetheless, I agree that her username is potentially quite inflammatory and almost guaranteed to cause offence with at least some people.

So I'd be interested to hear her response to the question.

Sorry! Two threads running on the same subject. IStandWithPosie started the other one. I meant her, and I'm assuming ButchyRestingFace did too.

I never referenced the OP at all. I specifically addressed @IstandwithPosie in my post.

Haven't seen anyone else with a potentially offensive username in this thread (yet).

Oh good grief! My username is offensive? I’ve had this username for some time now. Well over a month and MNHQ have not informed me of a single report about it. I imagine anyone who was feeling vulnerable as a result of my name would have reported it. If they haven’t I can only assume this is a ridiculous childish back-lash to not agreeing with me on this thread. I fully expect you to report my name now in a strop. My username is not threatening or inflammatory to anyone. It’s in support of an individual who was formerly a MNer. My support of that person is threatening to no-one.

I don't agree with IStand on the trans issue (I assume, from her user name) but given that trans issues are moderated much more robustly than other protected characteristics, I assume her username is OK with HaitchQ.

I was referred to on another thread about this as gangbanger, which I find totally disgusting - HaitchQ amended the post, and I don't really know how anyone could have misread my name, but apparently they did. It explains a weird comment the other day too which I didn't understand, and can't be bothered to go back and find.

Someone a few pages ago asked about the use of the phrase in Ireland. I'm from Dublin, and IME I would say it's used broadly in the geographical sense, usually for humour in a rural Vs urban type discussion. So I might say to my cousins "do you have X outside the pale yet?".

I never hear it used to mean unacceptable, the way it was previously used in talk guidelines. So I never hear it used in the "her language is beyond the pale", "my boss wants me to work Saturday, it's beyond the pale" sense.

If that makes sense?

Not getting your way on the threads so let’s target individual posters. Lovely.

Okay, well, that's NOT the response I was expecting. Especially when I clearly stated that I share your views on the subject in question.

I was sitting here musing about whether or not people feel that there has to be element of justification to the perception of a word or phrase being offensive. Hence, you wouldn't feel that someone was justified in claiming offence at your username because of x/y/z.

I expected a response somewhere along those lines.

But yes, whilst I don't share their views, I imagine quite a few people would find your username offensive. Doesn't necessarily mean they'd report you for it.

Can't you see the difference between a single poster having a user name or making a comment, which is their name and opinion, and is reportable for breach (or not) of talk guidelines and up to mods to decide on, and the actual talk guidelines which are duty bound to be compliant with the provisions of the Equality Act containing a potentially offensive phrase (as they did previously)?

I don't agree with IStand on the trans issue (I assume, from her user name) but given that trans issues are moderated much more robustly than other protected characteristics, I assume her username is OK with HaitchQ

Whereas I DO agree with her about the trans issue.

But this is a thread about words and phrases being offensive, and how they should be avoided.

That username is potentially going to offend a certain section of the population. Whether MNHQ are fine with it or not.

I was just interested to hear her views on what makes her username okay but referring to something as being "beyond the pale" is not.

I thought I covered that in my last post?

There is justification for the phrase in question being offensive butchy.

Exactly, I'm not going to be reporting it either
What you're refusing to see though is where does it stop? You're sounding like "it's not offensive because I don't think it is."
When a lot will. Is it only ok to be offended if it's your type of offended?

The thread has evolved a bit beyond just the Talkguidelines though, Giantbanger.

I'm glad they were amended because it's clear that some people clearly do find the phrase offensive.

Right. Seeing as how you want to open this can of worms. Let’s break down my username. Over a month ago a poster stating the dictionary definition of a woman was removed from a publicly visible billboard. I disagree with that action. I supported the person who arranged the billboard to raise awareness and arrange further billboards. I changed my username to reflect that. The dictionary definition of a woman is offensive or threatening to no one. My support of that definition and the person who is arranging to have it staged publically is offensive and threatening to no-one. Are we really going to make this a trans thread?

Nobody's making it a trans thread - we were just pointing out that your username is offensive to a lot of people too so why is that ok but this isn't?

Oh well there’s no proof it’s offensive so.... you saying it’s offensive doesn’t count... you’re wrong in you’re offence....you’re mistaken, etc etc.

Surely if someone is offended by IStandWithPosie as a username, it's up to them to report it and HaitchQ will take a determination on whether it is in breach of talk guidelines or not?

Just the same as any user can report any number of things they find offensive and it is up to HaitchQ to make a determination on?

My username is not threatening or inflammatory to anyone

The dictionary definition of a woman is offensive or threatening to no one

Well, I'm assuming your views and your name would be to a transwoman.

Why is it OK to offend them but not you when it's something that offends you?
That's what me and butchyrestingface are saying.

Don't engage with posts that aren't made in good faith.

That is all.

It was a genuine question. On a thread about if something is seen as offensive, and people are telling you that yes, your views are offensive to some,then you don't insist on using or airing them. So not really irrelevant.
And I wasn't the only one asking it, someone else asked it and I agreed with them.

Don't engage with posts that aren't made in good faith

Don't engage with posts which don't agree with you.

There fixed it for you.

Some people find it offensive with no bias in fact- but we must ban it because some people don't like it.

I don't agree with this. I think if you want to ban something you need a significant weight of opinion. Banning certain language is very dangerous - as the trans debate highlights.

However, you can't want language banned with no factual basis in some circumstances but not others.

Also, it does seem the crux of the issue is NI, posters from Ireland seem significantly less bothered. There are many things in NI deemed offensive there that are significantly less of an issue in the rest of the U.K. for example 1st of July, orange and boys names like William and Oliver.

I could also add, a women's right to choose.

Basis not bias

If you're going to spout about Northern Ireland it would be helpful to get the date right. But hey ho.

I never referenced the OP at all. I specifically addressed IstandwithPosie in my post. Haven't seen anyone else with a potentially offensive username in this thread (yet

Yes, sorry for the confusion there - I used the thread OP because IStandwith started the other thread as there's two threads about the same thing running, doh
I meant the same person though.