To think that if you’re told a phrase is offensive, you don’t insist on using it?

[changehere]

Yes, a TAAT. The context is that we explained to mumsnet HQ that the phrase ‘beyond the Pale’ is found eyebrow-raising by many (but not all) Irish people.

The Pale was the name given to an area of Ireland under English rule and those outside that area were considered uncivilised aka ‘beyond the pale’. This is a phrase that is only used with raised eyebrows in Ireland and certainly feels inappropriate, if not offensive, coming from an English person.

Mumsnet use it as part of their racism guidelines as in that they only ban language that is ‘beyond the pale’. Mumsnet accept the origins of the phrase. However, they insist on using this phrase to describe whether something is or is not racist.

Given the context, AIBU in requesting that Mumsnet find another phrase in their racism guidelines?

I use it all the time and I didn'[t know until this thread some Irish have issues with it even by those who use it with its correct derivation. I will not stop using it but if someone From Dublin is talking to me I might think twice.

I don't want MN however to ban much at all. The less the better and it would for me perhaps be beyond the Pale if they banned the phrase beyond the Pale which is common figure of speech used by the English and those who know its meaning mostly all think correctly that it goes back to Russia etc and just means something is going too far.

Bluntness - MarDhea has correctly called you out on posting the same thing over and over and ignoring any evidence to the contrary. IMO you are waiting for someone to lose it and ironically that person turned out to be you.

Giantbanger

There are two difficulties with your quoted headlines.

First, none are racist. You may disagree with the politics expressed (for what it’s worth, so do I) but they’re not racist.

Second, here are a couple of uses from papers in the Republic:

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/dooley-admits-ff-looks-male-stale-and-beyond-the-pale-31256906.html

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/eyebrows-raised-beyond-the-pale-260781.html

The first actually quotes Fianna Fáil!

And there are plenty more. Have a look.

Are these papers and people racist?

This is all a bit silly now.

It would appear that MNHQ are taking a pragmatic "fair comment" approach as none of my posts have been deleted, including the butterfly one

MNHQ have amended their talk guidelines to remove the "beyond the pale" phrase. They announced it a couple of hours ago on the site stuff thread.

I'm happy with this decision and relieved that MNHQ were prepared to change their position and admit that a phrase with racist connotations was upsetting to some people. Common decency has prevailed.

Fair play to them!

Common decency has prevailed

What a wonderful sentiment.

Interesting, I had an email saying your link was being removed talkin was it removed and reinstated?

I know nothing about what MNHQ have said to you.
They have said nothing to me.
Its a well known natural history website.

How strange @Ta1kinpeece - I've also received an email from the mods saying that your post had been deleted...

Me too. I've queried it with the mods.

Wow I had absolutely no idea about the origins of this phrase, and certainly had no inkling that it was offensive. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. (I'd never really thought about it before, but I too thought it was about buckets somehow 😂😳)

Its a well known natural history website.

I fully lolled at this by the way. Very childish to act so innocent.

Its a well known natural history website.

Yes but you didn’t post it to discuss butterflies. You posted it to make a deliberately goady point without a warning knowing that people who that word would offend would see it.

I cannot delete the post. You have reported. NMP

@IStandWithPosie, you've probably been asked this already, but would you change your username if/when someone pitches up and tells you it's offensive?

For disclosure, it doesn't offend me. I agree with it.

It’s absolutely your problem. You don’t get to post offensive links and then claim no responsibility for it because MNHQ haven’t deleted it!

That offensive post is now gone.

Butchyrestingface - I said that earlier on in the thread, so it's not just you. It got either ignored or missed though. Op has a very inflammatory username that could make some feel unwelcome or vulnerable on here. A lot will feel offended by it. As I said where does the policing stop?

I have an inflammatory user name?

A name about a big firework I heard at Halloween and it's inflammatory and offensive?

Seriously?

I've been accused on here already today of having the user name gangbanger.

That is NOT my user name and I am disgusted at that even being thought to be my name.

@VerbeenaBeeks please explain how op's username is offensive & how it could make anyone feel unwelcome & vulnerable 🤔

god I thought this was on my thread - sorry - due to being accused of being gangbanger.

THe OP here is Changehere - how is that offensive?

Sorry! Two threads running on the same subject. IStandWithPosie started the other one. I meant her, and I'm assuming ButchyRestingFace did too.

I have an inflammatory user name?

Eh? Where did anyone say that?

If someone reads your name as "Gangbanger", I agree, says more about them than you.