To think a rapist shouldn't be in a women's prision to start with?

[MipMipMip]

A rapist has now admitted to assaulting female prisoners while in a women's prision. (This individual is in prision for rape but the assaults on prisoners do not appear to have been rape. Assuming all have come forward. )

But there is a large part of me that think this is down almost entirely to the people who put him there. Don't get me wrong - I blame the rapist. But it is clear that they are opportunistic. So while you wouldn't be surprised if someone went in a tigers cage and got eaten, you shouldn't be surprised that a rapist going into a women's prision assaults women.

These assaults were wholly avoidable. AIBU to think the people who enabled the rapist should be held partially responsible?

*for clarity: as MNHQ do not allow a person to be misgendered and this individual identifies as trans I have not used male pronouns. I hope that this does not prevent clear discussion.

I'm being honest. I don't break the law, not because I'm a do-gooder or anything like that. I just don't fancy getting raped in the prison showers. It's a useful deterrent.

This is a disturbing statement. The punishment aspect of prison is being locked up away from life, your loved ones and society. Not being raped. By saying it’s a useful deterrent you accept and condone. That’s not ok.

You say upthread that it ‘only’ accounts for a small proportion of assaults. Is that ok then? These women are collateral damage? There’s a simple way of making sure it causes NO assaults and that’s not to lock up anyone with a penis in a female prison.

Nobody ever deserves rape. A prison sentence Is their punishment, not sexual assault.

Of course male people shouldn't be in a female prisons, hence having them segregated to start with! It makes it worse when the male person is done for rape to start with, but even without that, no male should be locked up with females as it is just asking for trouble. To be quite honest, I don't really think male people should be guards in female prisons.

Yep, Mydoctor gave himself away there didn't he? I just don't fancy getting raped in the prison showers (Man thing) The poster is a man, thinks nothing of women being raped by a penis person, thinks mens feelings come before women's safety, enjoys winding women up, but hates the thought of being locked up with male prisoners himself. Yep, MAN.

God can you imagine talking to someone 30 or 40 years ago and saying not only are men being locked up in women's prisons, rapists and sex offenders are.

Why? Because they say so.

@Mydoctor come back and give us more of your male perspective on women as collateral damage? Disgusting, but intriguing.

The trouble is women are collateral damage in this. Every time someone says it's only small numbers, insignificant risk, I want to ask them to point out the women who they want to be assaulted. Because 1 woman being raped to make men feel better is one too many.

Olenna don't forget John Worboys. Thought to have committed over 100 rapes (though not charged with them all) and the parole board thought it fine and dandy for him to be let out. I mean there was no pattern of behaviour or anything, really

Oh fucking hell that link wtf
They had VIDEO of him committing a rape right on victim 2 and they didn't charge him?
We all know this is how it goes right, and it's why so many women and girls don't reprt, but when you see it written down like that it's shocking all over again.

There was that man recently as well who managed to bump off 3 girlfriends / wives before the police thought oh is he a bit iffy.

YANBU

And yes, whoever signed off on a rapist being in a woman’s prison in the first place should be held to account.

This is so disturbing.

They locked women in with a known rapist.

Sorry I have to keep saying this, to try and remind myself its reality

Just been discussed on radio 4. The representative from Fairplay for Women, sorry I didn't catch her name, was excellent.

Sorry I have to keep saying this, to try and remind myself its reality

Me too, MsBeee, me too.

And I had to do that when a young 20-year-old man, in a Labour Party elected position, said they can get pregnant, because they stand as much chance as a woman who isn't ovulating, when middle aged fathers say they are actually infertile women, to infertile women and transactivists say it would be entirely fair if Parliament was made up of half men and half men who identify as women, in terms of female representation and if women don't like it they can suck their cock.

Occasionally I console myself with the thought that normal people don't think like this. And then I find out that lots of them bloody well do.

Exactly how many people would have had to have signed off on this rapist being incarcerated amongst women? Two, five?

How many people thought it was okay? And now they're sorry??

Fuck off with the fucking sorry, you insane bastards.

Was it Nic Williams birdsdestiny? Because she's shit hot at prisons and prisoners. She really knows her onions.

How many people thought it was okay?

And how many didn’t, but felt they couldn’t object in the climate of their organisation?

And how many didn’t, but felt they couldn’t object in the climate of their organisation?

^^ This. In a climate where gender critical people are: being expelled from political parties; being asked to explain themselves to university research committees; being attacked for published papers.

It was Nicola Williams (FairPlay for Women) on R4 and she was great.

Boils my blood! A rapist of women conveniently identifies as a woman so is allowed complete access to vulnerable women.
Yes this would be terrible if this was the case, if they just said they were a woman in order to get access to women.

But in this particular case, it seems that the person actually believes they are a woman. They were undergoing transition and presumably that’s why they were put in a women’s prison. They were convincing because they believe it themselves.
Presumably the person believes they were raping with their rapey girl dick.
I think this is an important distinction to make.

Datun, I feel you

Nuffaluff

I don't think so. They're a drag queen. Their friends said they aren't transgender. They had appointments made for them at a gender clinic, and never showed up.

I am waiting for a female prisoner subjected to a rape or sexual assault by a 'transwoman' to sue the prison service. I would gladly contribute to a crowdfunder for a shit hot lawyer.

• Presumably the person believes they were raping with their rapey girl dick. I think this is an important distinction to make.*

I think there's an important distinction between people who have genuine dysphoria and seek medical/surgical transition to relieve it, and this sort of individual who is either dangerously deluded or skilfully deluding people.

When it comes to deciding which prison this person should be on, frankly whatever is going on mentally is irrelevant compared to what they're doing physically - sexually abusing women.

This story is being pretty widely reported at least.
The vast majority of the general public will say wtf that is awful stupid nuts.

I simply don't understand why so many institutions have changed their policies so quickly to TWAW and access all areas with any kind of concern for women/girls safeguarding etc out the window without a second thought.

Ask anyone on the street what they thought would happen in this situation, they will say, odds are good that women will be attacked. And yet the prison service / board who decides etc couldn't see it?

So many more women are hardening their views the more of this stuff comes out.

But does anyone listen to women? Not really. Not the old fashioned cunty sort, anyway.

Under the current rules a prisoner must be placed into a jail in accordance with their legally recognised gender. If an inmate identifies as their non-legally recognised gender, a local Transgender Case Board will meet to assess, but must take account of the previous offending history.

*However, that did not take place in this case.

This is from the Telegraph article linked to earlier.

So, no, it's not laid down in law that a trans woman goes to a female prison.

Mophead my understanding is that's what happens if they don't have a GRC. If they do have one they go straight to the women's estate and are subject to the same risk assessment as a natal woman (hate that term but using for clarity!).

One of the concerns about Self ID is that it will make it very very easy to get a GRC. So any man can legally be a woman and there will not be a trans case board review, they will automatically go straight to the Women's estate.

I think people are getting too hung up on the "trans" part of the story, when really it should be about the vulnerability of female prisoners. If this offender didn't use her penis during the sexual assaults then I don't see how it's relevant that she has one. Sexual offenders being placed in gen pop is nothing new. Plenty of female prisoners sexually assault other female prisoners everyday and that's awful, and again, it's nothing new.

Vulnerable women in prisons should have the right to be protected from harm, especially in regards to known sexual-offenders (whatever it their sex/gender). One solution would be for ALL prisoners convicted of sexual assaults (not just the trans ones) to be isolated for the duration of their sentences. But of course that's not economically viable. Another more feasible solution is better psychological therapy for sexual offenders, although that too is expensive.