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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a rapist shouldn't be in a women's prision to start with?

450 replies

MipMipMip · 06/09/2018 17:01

A rapist has now admitted to assaulting female prisoners while in a women's prision. (This individual is in prision for rape but the assaults on prisoners do not appear to have been rape. Assuming all have come forward. )

But there is a large part of me that think this is down almost entirely to the people who put him there. Don't get me wrong - I blame the rapist. But it is clear that they are opportunistic. So while you wouldn't be surprised if someone went in a tigers cage and got eaten, you shouldn't be surprised that a rapist going into a women's prision assaults women.

These assaults were wholly avoidable. AIBU to think the people who enabled the rapist should be held partially responsible?

*for clarity: as MNHQ do not allow a person to be misgendered and this individual identifies as trans I have not used male pronouns. I hope that this does not prevent clear discussion.

OP posts:
birdsdestiny · 07/09/2018 22:23

The penis is relevant because people with penis are about a hundred million times more likely to commit sexual offences than women.

Carrrotsandcauliflower · 07/09/2018 22:27

Saw this on twitter earlier

To think a rapist shouldn't be in a women's prision to start with?
Goth237 · 07/09/2018 22:27

The abuse that happened is awful, but women rape women too. And prison is exactly where a rapist should be, in the gender they identify as. I'm sure it happens between the other women at the prison too- what needs to be looked at is how well the guards are overseeing the interactions between inmates. Clearly, in this case, there was not enough supervision going on. I don't think that the fact that this person is transgender should enter into it.

Goth237 · 07/09/2018 22:29

@LittleKitty1985 I completely agree with what you're saying.

IAmLurkacus · 07/09/2018 22:32

Women do NOT rape other women as here in the U.K. rape requires a penis!

I am waiting for a female prisoner subjected to a rape or sexual assault by a 'transwoman' to sue the prison service. I would gladly contribute to a crowdfunder for a shit hot lawyer.

I would definitely contribute to that. I hope one of the affected women finds this thread and knows the support they would have if they wanted to sue. We are supposed to be a civilised country, vulnerable women being subjected to these risks is totally unacceptable.

Mrbatmun · 07/09/2018 22:32

The abuse that happened is awful, but women rape women too.

No they don't. You can't rape without a penis.

And prison is exactly where a rapist should be, in the gender they identify as.

Why? Why should they be in a prison of the gender they identify as? Why not the sex they actually are?

By your logic we should do away with sex segregation in prisons altogether, if women are just as bad as men? Why do you think we segregate prisons by sex?

UpstartCrow · 07/09/2018 22:34

People who know fuck all about women in prison shouldn't be making the rules. It leads to idiotic situations such as rapists being in a women's prison.

Mrbatmun · 07/09/2018 22:35

If this offender didn't use her penis during the sexual assaults then I don't see how it's relevant that she has one.

Because this person had a history of sexual offences. 98% of sexual offences are perpetrated by males, therefore the vast vast majority of women in prison are not sexual offenders. This person was a male who was already known to be a rapist, why the fuck do you think putting them in a female prison would be a good idea?

LittleKitty1985 · 07/09/2018 22:38

@Mrbatmun The relevant detail here is her history of sexual assault, not her penis!

Mrbatmun · 07/09/2018 22:41

Her penis.

Her. Penis.

MissusGeneHunt · 07/09/2018 22:42

@Carrrotsandcauliflower... Perfect! Captured it succinctly.

Mrbatmun · 07/09/2018 22:43

Karen White is male. Males are the class which overwhelmingly carry out sexual offences. That is a large part of why men and women aren't chucked in together in prison. They fact that Karen White says they are female does not change the fact that Karen remains part of the class of male and therefore part of the class of people who overwhelmingly carry out sexual offences. And Karen has proven this.

birdsdestiny · 07/09/2018 22:45

People who support this are collusive in the abuse of women.

NadiaLeon · 07/09/2018 22:45

Men are always getting raped men's prisons. There are no safe prisons. Full of societal dregs.

LittleKitty1985 · 07/09/2018 22:50

@Mrbatmun Thank you for revealing the true subtext here, people are claiming to care about vulnerable prisoners, but actually this is all just an excuse to be transphobic

OrchidInTheSun · 07/09/2018 22:52

You don't think there's a threat implicit in a convicted rapist shoving his erect cock against you littlekitty? Bullshit

LittleKitty1985 · 07/09/2018 22:54

@OrchidInTheSun More so than any other female convicted of sexual assault with a shiv against my throat and her fingernails scratching my insides? No not really!

BrickByBrick · 07/09/2018 22:59

It is not transphobic to say women were sexually assaulted by a person with a fully functioning penis.

It is not transphobic to say that measures should be in place to protect women (the ones with a vagina) especially in a place where they (the vagina ones) are already at their most vulnerable.

It is not transphobia but there is certainly some rape apologetics on this thread.

BrickByBrick · 07/09/2018 23:02

Bloody hell it isn't a race to the bottom of sexual assault hierarchy. All sexual assault is wrong but even more wrong is to hand people opportunities on a plate.

Ereshkigal · 07/09/2018 23:05

And that's without considering the privacy and dignity implications. The low level sexual harassment this male person could perpetuate.

LittleKitty1985 · 07/09/2018 23:06

@BrickByBrick Yes of course, but sex offenders have always been placed in gen pop, but people are only getting angry now because this particular sex offender is trans

ErrolTheDragon · 07/09/2018 23:07

This person wasn't just a member of the class that rapes, but a person who had already raped women ffs. And who hadn't changed, still wanted to sexually abuse women.

This person is in no way, shape, or form a woman, and such a person should never be put in a women's prison.

I don't care how many times politicians mouth the meaningless mantra 'transwomen are women' - this person gives lie to it.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/09/2018 23:12

but sex offenders have always been placed in gen pop, but people are only getting angry now because this particular sex offender is trans

If men's rights campaigners want to protest about men being raped by men in men's prisons, they should most certainly go ahead and do so - it shouldn't happen. We're women concerned about women's safety.

Datun · 07/09/2018 23:14

but people are only getting angry now because this particular sex offender is trans*

Nope. As evidenced by the fact that transmen would be fine.

TwistedStitch · 07/09/2018 23:15

Her penis.

Seriously? How can you even type that with a straight face? A male rapist is a specific threat to women. A penis can have specific implications for women such as pregnancy. Why does his 'gender identity' get prioritized over the safety of female inmates? Littlekitty can you explain why you think a male rapist should be housed in a women's prison? Why his feelings are so important? Thanks.

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