To be so worried about creepy uncle that I'm scared to seperate from DP

[sparklyhorse]

My DP's brother is 48 and lives at home with MIL and always has. He holds down a basic job. He had no friends and has never had a girlfriend or been on a date. He's intelligent (has a degree) and he's attractive. His social skills are not great - he hasn't got much to talk about and says awkward inappropriate things - not sexual but more rude and abrupt.

I don't like the way he is around DD who is 3 and DS who is 2. He is very physical with them and plays tickling games and has them on his knee all the time. He has never been left alone with them but one time I was at DMILs and she popped out and I was alone with him and kids. I was busy with DS who was a baby and he took DD upstairs to the playroom. Nothing happened as I kept looking in and they were sitting next to each other reading a book but I didn't like it and I kept saying it was time to come downstairs but he ignored me. That rang alarm bells with me.

I'm not sure whether this is just poor social skills and him not realising the social rules and how careful a male relative needs to be around young children. Or something more sinister. But I don't like it and my alarm bells have been going off every time I see him with them being so physical.

I mentioned to my DP in the nicest possible way I didn't like it (i sort of made a joke about the brother ignoring me in saying it was time to come down) but he thought I was being ridiculous as its his brother and he totally trusts him. Anyway I got DP to agree that the kids would never be left alone with any man as a way to prevent anything (I'm actually happy for them to be alone with some men, just not creepy uncle but a blanket rule seemed easier to enforce).

Tonight we were round at DMILs and she wasn't home yet. We were having dinner there so I popped to the shop for some stuff. So just DP, brother and kids there. I was gone 40 mins. Get back and DDs sitting on couch opposite uncle on his chair with no pants or trousers on and legs spread. I was totally like WTF?! I said very loudly DD why don't you have any pants on. Uncle says oh she had wet herself. I take her out immediately and find DP in the garden doing some chores and ask him why DD has no pants on in front of a man. Sorry he says, she had wet her pants so I took them off and got distracted doing something else. I said it was totally unacceptable and he was a bit sheepish and found a clean pair of pants. DD then says it was fun sitting on my uncle's knee with no pants and getting fresh air on my vulva (both children know the proper names for their parts as I had read that being able to name the parts reduced the likelihood of abuse - I looked this up specifically as worried about the uncle. We've also read children's books about how our parts are private and no one else should touch them etc).

I've decided I want to seperate from my DP for many reasons but I'm worried about what might happen with the uncle when I'm not there. DP is weak, people pleasing and will also lie to avoid confrontation so I can't trust that he will supervise his brother with the kids. What do I do?

I feel I cant stay with him just on the tiny chance something bad happens as I'm miserable. But how do I protect my children when I'm not there? I realise this post might make me sound like a nutter but I don't have issues with any other male relatives or men in general. Other male relatives don't act like this either. And I have a particularly good radar for people so much so a large part of my job is choosing which senior executives to employ for companies I consult to.

I actually feel sick about this. What can i do except make rules that might not be followed and teach the kids about keeping safe.

Wow this must be so bloody stressful.
I have no advice but posting to keep in active threads so hopefully someone helpful will be along soon.

Thanks. Yes it's stressful for sure. Its a part of why I've stayed in a miserable relationship for longer than i should have. DP is generally good with the kids but I so worry when i know how weak and people pleasing he is. You can never really rely on what he says.

Sorry to drip feed but my DP told me years ago that when his brother was at university (they were there at same time) and went on rare social outings with him that the brother would drink too much and his chat with women was sexually inappropriate. Again this could just be caused by inexperience and lack of social skills..

That is really scary. Could you plant a seed with MIL? She’s unlikely to react well if you go in all guns blazing but what if you mentioned it in a “Flippin’ heck, aren’t those boys of yours daft and incapable, DD wet herself and instead of finding some clean pants straight away they’ve got distracted! I came in to DD on uncle’s knee with no pants on, can’t believe he wasn’t uncomfortable with it, never mind the likelihood of her weeing on his knee! Bloody men, need us to do everything”

I don’t know. It’s very, very hard and I really feel for you. Any chance you would be able to insist on supervised contact if you split? Could you front up and say to MIL that you found it a bit weird and unsettling and would appreciate it if she would keep an eye out? Obviously very high chance she will kick off but would it do enough to plant a seed, is she a decent person?

I would go over and over and over it with your kids. It shouldn’t be up to them though to protect themselves

But the uncle hasn't done anything op

I think you're right to trust your instincts if his behaviour is a little off.

There'll be people who say his behaviour doesn't seem that bad etc, but we're not there so we have to trust your spider senses are twitching for a reason.

Does your DD wet herself very often? Is it a plausible story? Only coz I have a dc the same age and it's been ages since they wet themselves.

To answer your question, ultimately it doesn't sound like you'll be able to stop the creepy uncle having alone time with them if you split up with your partner.

In your situation unless your re ationship is untenable I'd wait another 18 mo - 2 years. By that time your kids will be much older and able to understand you and you can ensure they can try and avoid alone situations and to tell you if it did happen.

I would probably also speak directly to the uncle and say no more tickling, sitting on knee etc, let him know you've clocked him. If he does it physically remove the kids from him, hopefully the kids will pick up on your reticence around him and avoid him too.

Would something like Claire's Law apply here? I mean - could you ask the police if he is on their radar/if there has ever been anything recorded? I have to admit I don't know how it works - but if you could find out if he had anything of a dodgy past you'd be on stronger ground re the no-contact.

How horrid, I wouldn't let your children see their mil without you being there or insist that she come to you instead, don't invite brother over if he makes you feel uncomfortable, they are your children and it's your house.

Thank you Badger. Unfortunately my MIL is not a mentally healthy person and not someone I can rely on at all (and I'm fact she HATES me as I stole her son). I was DPs first girlfriend (He was 39 when we met). I know know I should have run a mile. She has never got over me stealing her precious boy despite the fact she still has another one at home. The family is seriously dysfunctional.

I have no advice, but this is weird and I would be worried too, I hope you find a way to leave without him being left with your little ones.
Up until the naked on his knee part I kept thinking he sounds like my brother in law who is autistic but loves my daughter, but then it just got too inappropriate x

Purplelila2 you are right, nothing has happened. But nothing coild have happened as theres been no opportunity. I don't want to wait for something to happen to my kids before I do something.

Could it not just be that DP and his brother are both just a bit odd? First girlfriend at 39 is quite extreme. If you don't want DD to be alone with her uncle then fine but I'd be very wary of spreading your concerns further.

If you are seriously,concerned about themsafety of your children when they are with mil or brother then don't let them see them, explain that they make you feel uncomfortable, if they want to see them it has to be supervised by you at a place of your choosing. Your children are your priority.

He hasn't actually done anything wrong. I have no idea what you mean about male relatives need to be careful around children of the family. Would you feel the same if the uncle was a socially awkward aunt? Cos you're basically saying you think he's a paedophile because he took your dd upstairs to read a book and once he was in the room while she had no pants on. Not much evidence to go on is it?

Sparkleandsunshine I am pretty sure the uncle is on the spectrum. I think my DP is too and that's part of our issues. I never met my DFIL but the descriptions of him are consistent with autistic spectrum too. DMIL is quite dysfunctional too though. Sometimes I think they're not ok the spectrum, just had an odd upbringing with emotionally cold parents. But I've kind of given up on trying to untangle whether it's learned behaviour or a spectrum issue. The end result is the same and tbh I wish I'd never met any of them (apart from I have 2 lovely kids). I wonder if I need some kind of mediated/legal agreement about contact.

Hassled It’s Sarah’s Law to look into a person’s background in relation to offending against children.

www.sarsas.org.uk/sarahs-law/

I would have gone batshit at coming home to
Find that situation.

I was also thinking along the lines of claire’s law.

Maybe even speak to children’s aervices about what makes you uncomfortable? I dont know how possible that is for you. Or phone childline and ask for advice?

Thank you - I knew I had the wrong name.

tricky. The whole family a little odd at best. How old is your dd is she nearing am age where she would be able to tell you if she saw her uncle whilst visiting dad if you separated? If I were you I'd prob get on with life as best I can until I was at a point where my children certainly understood about what is not acceptable and could let you k ow if anything went on. I don't even know if that would work. I feel for you.I wouldn't be spending anymore timw at mils to see creepy brother and if dh asks why just tell him straight

Thegoldenwolf it's not the uncle had anything to do with no pants on, it's that I can't trust my DP not to leave kids alone with uncle in such a situation. Its also that I don't know any other males in our social/family circle who are so physical with the kids, wouldn't come downstairs when asked by me when alone with a child or would happily have a little girl with no pants sit on their knee/spread their legs ok the couch an not be a bit uncomfortable.

I think you are extropoliating from socially awkward and odd (and on the spectrum) to paedophilia which I have to say on the evidence you have given is a huge leap.

Its sounds like both your DP and his brother lack social and cultural cues and therefore understanding of normal behaviour

You need to tackle the issue with the uncle regardless of whether you are splitting up or not.

You shouldn't make this about "not being with men", but about appropriate boundaries between children and adults.

What has autism got to do with being inappropriate in this way?

Stop taking your DCs to your MIL. she can visit you. You don't let the uncle "take" DD upstairs or anywhere. If he didn't come down, you should have gone straight up and taken her out. Be assertive and clear with your DP. E.g. "It is inappropriate for x/y/z to happen".

Your post rings alarm bells for personal reasons, so I suggest you listen to your instincts. Do not apologise for anything and act as you see fit.

In one thread people are complaining about people sexualising kids and that naked kids are no big deal and now everyone is complaining that it's weird.

I'd say hang on with the divorce untillyour, kids are older...probably not what you want to hear ...but the best way of keeping them safe

Honest question, why did you chose to marry and have children with a man whose family you think are dysfunctional and weird a d dont want your child alone around? Surely you thought about that vefore marrying and having the child?

Also you keep bringing up your bil's age as if thats weird when you say your own dh didnt date until he met you at 39 which is also late. So bil and dh arent that disimikar in that respect.

Also nothing you bil has done is weird or alarming or means he is a paedophile. God my dsis has gone out and come back to me bathing dn loads of times. Glad she doesnt assume the worst.

Also dont understand your point that you recruit people at work so that means you know when people are untrustworthy.

Is there an actual reason you think bil is a paedophile?