To be so worried about creepy uncle that I'm scared to seperate from DP

[sparklyhorse]

My DP's brother is 48 and lives at home with MIL and always has. He holds down a basic job. He had no friends and has never had a girlfriend or been on a date. He's intelligent (has a degree) and he's attractive. His social skills are not great - he hasn't got much to talk about and says awkward inappropriate things - not sexual but more rude and abrupt.

I don't like the way he is around DD who is 3 and DS who is 2. He is very physical with them and plays tickling games and has them on his knee all the time. He has never been left alone with them but one time I was at DMILs and she popped out and I was alone with him and kids. I was busy with DS who was a baby and he took DD upstairs to the playroom. Nothing happened as I kept looking in and they were sitting next to each other reading a book but I didn't like it and I kept saying it was time to come downstairs but he ignored me. That rang alarm bells with me.

I'm not sure whether this is just poor social skills and him not realising the social rules and how careful a male relative needs to be around young children. Or something more sinister. But I don't like it and my alarm bells have been going off every time I see him with them being so physical.

I mentioned to my DP in the nicest possible way I didn't like it (i sort of made a joke about the brother ignoring me in saying it was time to come down) but he thought I was being ridiculous as its his brother and he totally trusts him. Anyway I got DP to agree that the kids would never be left alone with any man as a way to prevent anything (I'm actually happy for them to be alone with some men, just not creepy uncle but a blanket rule seemed easier to enforce).

Tonight we were round at DMILs and she wasn't home yet. We were having dinner there so I popped to the shop for some stuff. So just DP, brother and kids there. I was gone 40 mins. Get back and DDs sitting on couch opposite uncle on his chair with no pants or trousers on and legs spread. I was totally like WTF?! I said very loudly DD why don't you have any pants on. Uncle says oh she had wet herself. I take her out immediately and find DP in the garden doing some chores and ask him why DD has no pants on in front of a man. Sorry he says, she had wet her pants so I took them off and got distracted doing something else. I said it was totally unacceptable and he was a bit sheepish and found a clean pair of pants. DD then says it was fun sitting on my uncle's knee with no pants and getting fresh air on my vulva (both children know the proper names for their parts as I had read that being able to name the parts reduced the likelihood of abuse - I looked this up specifically as worried about the uncle. We've also read children's books about how our parts are private and no one else should touch them etc).

I've decided I want to seperate from my DP for many reasons but I'm worried about what might happen with the uncle when I'm not there. DP is weak, people pleasing and will also lie to avoid confrontation so I can't trust that he will supervise his brother with the kids. What do I do?

I feel I cant stay with him just on the tiny chance something bad happens as I'm miserable. But how do I protect my children when I'm not there? I realise this post might make me sound like a nutter but I don't have issues with any other male relatives or men in general. Other male relatives don't act like this either. And I have a particularly good radar for people so much so a large part of my job is choosing which senior executives to employ for companies I consult to.

I actually feel sick about this. What can i do except make rules that might not be followed and teach the kids about keeping safe.

There are some posts on this thread (about a relative who is a convicted abuser - so very different to your situation) that are written by experienced and knowledgeable people that might be relevant to you: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3300141--possible-trigger-topic-AIBU-paedophile-in-the-family

Hegotmanflu What a father does with his DC during his contact time is up to him unless it has been court ordered as nothing has actually happened you cannot put stipulations on what he does with his time no matter how uncomfortable that makes you.

This is complete rubbish from beginning to end. People with social difficulties are not paedophiles, they may have developmental disorders but that doesn't make them more likely to abuse children. I have had the misfortune to meet two paedophiles and they were both utterly charming men. Part of the problem is that they were so good at covering up the abuse by being utterly charming with adults.

An uncle tickling his young niece/nephew is perfectly normal play and great fun (I appreciate some DCs do not like to be tickled and of course they should not be tickled but this is not the case here). As for naked 3yo vulvas in front of men, you have totally lost the plot with this one.

Normal fathers are as protective as mothers and he isn't. First thing on Monday phone the NSPCC.

Oh for gods sake .... what a load of bullshit

getting fresh air on my vulva (both children know the proper names for their parts as I had read that being able to name the parts reduced the likelihood of abuse

Did something happen in your own past op thats manifesting itself with your dd? You seem very anxious about bil including bringing up alleged sexually inappropriate cobversation with adults in a dribking environment.

Come on, we're adults - we wouldn't sit there with a child that's not ours naked on our knee! We're all aware in this day and age.

I would have thought a man would be very nervous to be found sitting like this. It does seem extra strange that he's not.

It's off... it's grooming the child to think that is normal and okay. That's totally unacceptable.

Of course as an uncle without children he may want to entertain his niece but - with clothes on!

Your dp is completely thoughtless. You discussed dd not being alone with any men, and agreed, the not only did he go against it but didn't bother finding her new knickers when she wet them and left her alone with a man. I'm biased, my dd was abused, and I remember dd being small and occasionally running about with no knickers on, but that the brother thought her sitting on his knee without knickers on was ok? That would bother me greatly.

For what it's worth, my dd told me that one time she was abused while I was in the house. I have no bloody idea how/when that was possible, but it was. So yes, there was time and opportunity. I wouldn't do that again if you are worried. You seem to be the only one able to stick to doing what was agreed. Trust your gut, carefully, but trust it.

Na not worth wondering the what’s and if they are on any spectrum op. Go with your instincts 100%.

No going to mils without you and split up if you feel you need to. Sounds like your dh won’t fight you anyway if he’s a people pleaser.

Contact at your house only. No bil invited.

If it’s not bullshit and troll hunting is not allowed I am amazed posters think it’s normal for 3 year old kids to sit naked on anyone’s lap really unless drying after a bath!

Why would thst ever be necessary or a thing.

To me it doesn't matter that he hasn't physically done anything. I wouldn't care. If someone is constantly setting alarm bells off in my head in relation to my dc, then I listen. I really believe in listening to your gut instincts.

Sorry, but what's he done?

I would want too like pp come and say but hes actually done nothing.and to read your post he hasn't and it doesn't sound so...the difference being your guut was doing and spidy senses.this cane take anything innocent look to off the scale wrong when you just feel and know something aint right here...
on what to do I don't no.and im sorry for that.
I no it shouldn't be on your little girl but just incase as you've already been really well open and stuff about naming of down there etc just to really ingrain in her if anyone ANYONE AT ALL touches or come near or does anything inappropriate (name some)she is to run and tell someone straight away and scream if need be.
or when you do leave him.would this be something you would tell a solicitor and see what they say about visits etc.i don't know if this is the kind of thing you could discusss.

@Cantsleeptooloud he's male,weird,single ,living with mum and apparently sexually chatted to women when drunk while at uni.

Marthaarthur no i wasnt abused. However I know the stats about how common abuse is and that the majority of abuse is committed by people known to the child. I never have this much thought until my gut started telling me there's something not right here. I don't feel this way about any of the other men in our lives. But then they don't act like him. And if I could trust my DP then i wouldn't be so worried about it.

Trust your instincts op, they are there for a reason! It was totally inappropriate for yiur dd to be sitting on this mans without pants or trousers. Why would he allow this to happen, wasent he uncomfortable with a little girls genitsls on his knee, this would ring alarm bells. Yiur dh sounds as good as a chocolate tea pot, canning keep yiur dd safe. You cannot leave her alone with this man or trust any family members to keep her safe from him.

I'm not entirely sure you're being reasonable, mainly as you talk about how 'careful a male relative should be around children' which seems unfairly gendered.

DH looks after our nephews- he's seen them naked plenty, taken them to the bathroom, got them dressed, changed diapers etc. None of that is inappropriate in the slightest... and it wouldn't be if they were nieces either.

If this was a female relative in this situation, would you feel the same way?

We all know you do not have a kickerless child sat on your lap..it's not appropriate or acceptable,and I too would of gone mental to find my dd sat on a mans lap with no knickers on..
But someone on the spectrum may not realise this ,that dosnt make them a child abuser...but nor does it mean they are not,the op has nothing to go on except her instincts and if I were in her situation my instincts would be to not have child at mil house if I wasn't there ,not impressed with the dh either ,can see why you want a divorce

Yes he hasent done anything yet! Ops instincts are high about this man, and she has act on them. Her dd safety comes first, not this mans feelings.

Another one thinking trust your instincts here. It's not appropriate at all and I would have gone batshit. So many red flags here, don't run the risk. I second the posters who said Sarah's law.

Yes he coukd be on the Autistic spectrum, but we don't know that, and op hasent said anything.

Tbh it sounds like she just thinks he's weird and doesn't like him .

come on people lets not get at eacohter.all families behave differently.expecially about nakedness.a man sitting with his niece like this could be totally 100% innocent. but its the fact I nthis situation the op senses were firing off and it felt just really wrong.
but I don't want to make families feel bad suddenly because for some this wouldn't be off behaviour for a three year old.i remmebr my uncle getting my sister changed once and it would NEVER cross my mind.men don't become inappropriate if its handed to them in the form of naked children.if they are they are and will act on it whatever the situation.

Honestly if she didn't have a change of clothes they could have wrapped her up with a towel/blanket or even an adult tshirt. Why leave a wet child sitting there like that?

I think you are been extremely sexist by assuming males are a threat to your daughter, but not mentioning females as a possible abuser.
Reading in a national newspaper today an article writen by the pop star Sinitta about been sexually abused by her aunt.
To brand all men as possible abusers but not women is opening up the false assumptions in your head that it would be safe to leave your daughter with any female, this is clearly not the case.