To be so worried about creepy uncle that I'm scared to seperate from DP

[sparklyhorse]

My DP's brother is 48 and lives at home with MIL and always has. He holds down a basic job. He had no friends and has never had a girlfriend or been on a date. He's intelligent (has a degree) and he's attractive. His social skills are not great - he hasn't got much to talk about and says awkward inappropriate things - not sexual but more rude and abrupt.

I don't like the way he is around DD who is 3 and DS who is 2. He is very physical with them and plays tickling games and has them on his knee all the time. He has never been left alone with them but one time I was at DMILs and she popped out and I was alone with him and kids. I was busy with DS who was a baby and he took DD upstairs to the playroom. Nothing happened as I kept looking in and they were sitting next to each other reading a book but I didn't like it and I kept saying it was time to come downstairs but he ignored me. That rang alarm bells with me.

I'm not sure whether this is just poor social skills and him not realising the social rules and how careful a male relative needs to be around young children. Or something more sinister. But I don't like it and my alarm bells have been going off every time I see him with them being so physical.

I mentioned to my DP in the nicest possible way I didn't like it (i sort of made a joke about the brother ignoring me in saying it was time to come down) but he thought I was being ridiculous as its his brother and he totally trusts him. Anyway I got DP to agree that the kids would never be left alone with any man as a way to prevent anything (I'm actually happy for them to be alone with some men, just not creepy uncle but a blanket rule seemed easier to enforce).

Tonight we were round at DMILs and she wasn't home yet. We were having dinner there so I popped to the shop for some stuff. So just DP, brother and kids there. I was gone 40 mins. Get back and DDs sitting on couch opposite uncle on his chair with no pants or trousers on and legs spread. I was totally like WTF?! I said very loudly DD why don't you have any pants on. Uncle says oh she had wet herself. I take her out immediately and find DP in the garden doing some chores and ask him why DD has no pants on in front of a man. Sorry he says, she had wet her pants so I took them off and got distracted doing something else. I said it was totally unacceptable and he was a bit sheepish and found a clean pair of pants. DD then says it was fun sitting on my uncle's knee with no pants and getting fresh air on my vulva (both children know the proper names for their parts as I had read that being able to name the parts reduced the likelihood of abuse - I looked this up specifically as worried about the uncle. We've also read children's books about how our parts are private and no one else should touch them etc).

I've decided I want to seperate from my DP for many reasons but I'm worried about what might happen with the uncle when I'm not there. DP is weak, people pleasing and will also lie to avoid confrontation so I can't trust that he will supervise his brother with the kids. What do I do?

I feel I cant stay with him just on the tiny chance something bad happens as I'm miserable. But how do I protect my children when I'm not there? I realise this post might make me sound like a nutter but I don't have issues with any other male relatives or men in general. Other male relatives don't act like this either. And I have a particularly good radar for people so much so a large part of my job is choosing which senior executives to employ for companies I consult to.

I actually feel sick about this. What can i do except make rules that might not be followed and teach the kids about keeping safe.

Charolais I've explained I wasn't exactly at my best in the first few years of the relationship with DP. And I put too much weight on the positives. He's not a bad person and so I didn't have a gut instinct saying he was. I also however have not said at any point I ever thought he was a good catch. I settled. Pushing 40 and wanted to have kids and on the face of it he seemed good. He changed too whrn kids came along. He had very little stress in his life and I now think he had set it up in a cemetery rigid and small way that he could cope with. Moving in together, emotioanl demands from me (not unreasonable ones) and having kids who also make emotional demands has just been too much for him in some ways and when he is stressed (often with 2 little ones) his negative traits come out. Its not my intention here to hold myself up as having made great choices. This has been a bad one (apart from the kids).

I too wouldn't have been happy with a half naked child sitting alone with an adult who I had suspicions about. The other stuff not so much.

It's really hard to rationalise a gut feeling but I would go with it. Instincts are there for a reason.

OP, it cannot be a mistake to be overly cautious where your children's safety is at stake.

There may not be a risk, but why chance it?

All the situations you describe are subject to various interpretations.

You sound very self aware and wise, I really recognise your comments about someone performing tasks rather than engaging emotionally.

I'm sorry he wasn't supportive, it's a horrible sinking feeling.

Trust your instincts.

It's incredibly clear from the statistics that shockingly high numbers of children are abused and that the perpetrators are almost always men, and usually men who are known to the child.

Why take a chance? At best, this man lacks insight into how to behave appropriately with a child -- at worst, it could escalate to abuse. I'd be really concerned if a family member had my daughter on his lap with no pants on. I don't think it's appropriate at all except for a parent, and I also think that the fact he was comfortable with it shows that he has an inappropriate sense of boundaries.

Could you ring the NSPCC to get their take on this situation? It might give a useful sense of perspective. They might also have suggestions for things you can do (although it sounds like you are already taking some of the most important preventative measures).

I also want to flag up that you may have some advantages as an unmarried mother -- your DP may have fewer rights (or they may be more difficult to access) as a parent. Although generally I feel it's really important to facilitate contact with a non-resident parent, if you have serious safeguarding concerns like this then I'd recommend you do anything you can to keep your children safe.

Thanks 3luckystars. I've read it and i think its a book all women should read. And it's in the back of my mind. I was not abused as a child but was sexually assaulted whilst out running in my late teens. A man approached to ask me help him look for his lost dog and when I stopped to help he dragged me into the bushesand assaulted me. I had an instinct not to trust him but love animals and didn't want a dog to be lost. Perhaps that's made me less trusting. The gift of fear is very clear on trusting your instincts and had I trusted mine that might not have happened to me. I hesitated to say that this happened to me (as will be accused of drip feeding and undue paranoia due to the experience) but I genuinely don't think it's made me paranoid about family abuse. It has made me more attuned to my instincts.

I despair of Mumsnet when people raise concerns about potential childhood sexual abuse. Many posts on this thread are stupid, ill-informed and dangerous. I don't think you can trust your partner to protect your DC from his brother. You cannot ignore your senses here. The boundaries are all over the place. Talk to NSPCC and take methodical steps to ensure your DCs are protected. You have every reason to be concerned.

You're not paranoid. Sorry that happened to you.

Bastardkitty you're right. I feel in fact I can't trust my DP to protect them full stop. He doesn't have a radar for stuff and even if he did he would be too worried aaboutconflict to say anything. I keep putting off splitting up as I'm so worried about what happens when I'm not there. Not just with the brother, in general. I feel quite trapped due to my own bad choices.

It's very easy for people to come on here and say 'why on earth did you have children with him'. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. There are problem behaviours here and your P has displayed inadequate concern and inappropriate boundaries. Start from there.

''I had a ‘weird uncle’ still lived at home in late 40s, no friends/girlfriend etc. He always took me up into his room and spent hours with me - taught me how to play his keyboard and did drawing etc.''

I had one too and spent many hours in his bedroom chatting and was just the 2 of us and he never did anything. Did the same with a weird male next door neighbour adult and he never did anything.... I think you need to be careful in labelling ppl. If he was a pedo and he heard you coming back he'd try to hide what he was doing but he didn't-that shows it likely was innocent. He may be odd but that doesn't equate to being sinister. I have seen my nephew run and sit on uncles knees when they are undressed and nobody bats an eyelid.

I would be very worried in your position, OP. Trust your instinct. You need to protect your daughter. She is too young to protect herself.

OP I am worried for your daughter. She is too young to defend herself and no-one else but you seems to be looking out for her. I say trust your instincts. I can't believe so many people here are telling g you otherwise.

I would trust your instincts always and seek some advice.

''I had a ‘weird uncle’ still lived at home in late 40s, no friends/girlfriend etc. He always took me up into his room and spent hours with me - taught me how to play his keyboard and did drawing etc. ''

yep, pedos are usually very secretive and manipulative, secretly plotting and scheming-he does not seem any of these things- just very odd and defo on the spectrum.

Trust your instincts.

What exactly has he done?
He’s tickled her? I do that to my relatives kids, does that make me weird too?
I also read to them.
I could understand the knee point, but your dp wasn't bothered about her being undressed.
A lot of little kids do spend their time without clothes on and its not a big deal.

I agree with RebelRogue it really seems as though you just don’t like him and want reasons.

I would have spoken out to the uncle straight away and made a big scene ( once your daughter was out of the way) and said how inappropriate it was to find him there with your naked daughter spread over his legs. He needs to know you did not like this at all and to never to do it again.

It's not too late to have a family conference about it now- tell them the school is talking about stuff like that and it's possible your daughter may bring it up there to a teacher. That may be enough to shock him into realising he cannot behave like that. If you split from your husband you will worry every time he has contact because, for sure, he will go back to live with mummy.

So sorry you're feeling trapped in the relationship OP. Does seem like DP wouldn't be able to tell if anything inappropriate was going on with his brother.

Trust your gut feeling. If your instinct is telling you something is off with your BIL around your children, you are feeling it for a reason. I would not trust him either by what you have said. Any reasonable person would know the no pants thing was very wrong and suspicious. His behaviour around your children is wrong, regardless of whether he may be on the spectrum or not.

Your children's wellbeing come first and as their mum you have to protect them. Trust your feelings, and don't let what others might say or think stop you from doing so. And if he is on the spectrum after all and doesn't understand what constitutes inappropriate behaviour with a child, that doesn't mean he should be allowed to display such behaviour because "he doesn't know any better". And if anyone thinks you are paranoid, ignore them. Better be paranoid and protect your child from potential abuse, than turning a blind eye to dubious behaviour to then find out something could have happened.

I think u need to trust yourself and not take anychances maybe see a proffessional lawer see if thing can be put in place before you drop the im leaving bomb shell that way youl feel more confident in your choice and know where you stand with the courts ...good luck

I think you may need to stay with your DP until your children are older. Not just because of the uncle, but your DP not having the wherewithal to protect them in other ways. I'd certainly worry about the dynamic with grandma.

Trust, trust, trust your instincts. What we call instincts are our brains noticing something unconsciously and screaming at us to pay attention. You've noticed something but you're struggling to pinpoint all the elements and tie them together.

I think it would be a good idea to speak to the uncle and tell him he needs to keep contact with your daughter in view of others you. Keep raising your kids to appreciate boundaries and always tell them they cannot keep secrets from both you and daddy. One of you must know.

Good luck - this must be awful x

This sounds so tough.

Trust your instincts; they're there to protect you all.

Have you phoned the NSPCC helpline?

DD then says it was fun sitting on my uncle's knee with no pants and getting fresh air on my vulva

HRTFT. Find it hard to believe that a 3-year-old would even notice that she had no pants on, never mind discuss getting fresh air on her vulva.

@sparklyhorse have you talked to the uncle yourself?
If you don't want to be confrontational and accusing you could frame it as protecting her from abuse,the ground rules you have in place and that his actions are confusing her and making her vulnerable.

Havent got time now to RFT but need to answer as youur instinct is your childs best protector
Use Claires Law to find out if there is anything in his past.
get the "Pants" activity pack from the NSPCC to play with you daughter and teach her safety
shop.nspcc.org.uk/collections/parenting-tools/products/copy-of-pants-activity-pack?_ga=2.95587417.454763673.1531117548-1640420541.1531117548
There other books out there too.
Good luck

Only 2 pages into thread but I really think you need to trust your instincts op