To be so worried about creepy uncle that I'm scared to seperate from DP

[sparklyhorse]

My DP's brother is 48 and lives at home with MIL and always has. He holds down a basic job. He had no friends and has never had a girlfriend or been on a date. He's intelligent (has a degree) and he's attractive. His social skills are not great - he hasn't got much to talk about and says awkward inappropriate things - not sexual but more rude and abrupt.

I don't like the way he is around DD who is 3 and DS who is 2. He is very physical with them and plays tickling games and has them on his knee all the time. He has never been left alone with them but one time I was at DMILs and she popped out and I was alone with him and kids. I was busy with DS who was a baby and he took DD upstairs to the playroom. Nothing happened as I kept looking in and they were sitting next to each other reading a book but I didn't like it and I kept saying it was time to come downstairs but he ignored me. That rang alarm bells with me.

I'm not sure whether this is just poor social skills and him not realising the social rules and how careful a male relative needs to be around young children. Or something more sinister. But I don't like it and my alarm bells have been going off every time I see him with them being so physical.

I mentioned to my DP in the nicest possible way I didn't like it (i sort of made a joke about the brother ignoring me in saying it was time to come down) but he thought I was being ridiculous as its his brother and he totally trusts him. Anyway I got DP to agree that the kids would never be left alone with any man as a way to prevent anything (I'm actually happy for them to be alone with some men, just not creepy uncle but a blanket rule seemed easier to enforce).

Tonight we were round at DMILs and she wasn't home yet. We were having dinner there so I popped to the shop for some stuff. So just DP, brother and kids there. I was gone 40 mins. Get back and DDs sitting on couch opposite uncle on his chair with no pants or trousers on and legs spread. I was totally like WTF?! I said very loudly DD why don't you have any pants on. Uncle says oh she had wet herself. I take her out immediately and find DP in the garden doing some chores and ask him why DD has no pants on in front of a man. Sorry he says, she had wet her pants so I took them off and got distracted doing something else. I said it was totally unacceptable and he was a bit sheepish and found a clean pair of pants. DD then says it was fun sitting on my uncle's knee with no pants and getting fresh air on my vulva (both children know the proper names for their parts as I had read that being able to name the parts reduced the likelihood of abuse - I looked this up specifically as worried about the uncle. We've also read children's books about how our parts are private and no one else should touch them etc).

I've decided I want to seperate from my DP for many reasons but I'm worried about what might happen with the uncle when I'm not there. DP is weak, people pleasing and will also lie to avoid confrontation so I can't trust that he will supervise his brother with the kids. What do I do?

I feel I cant stay with him just on the tiny chance something bad happens as I'm miserable. But how do I protect my children when I'm not there? I realise this post might make me sound like a nutter but I don't have issues with any other male relatives or men in general. Other male relatives don't act like this either. And I have a particularly good radar for people so much so a large part of my job is choosing which senior executives to employ for companies I consult to.

I actually feel sick about this. What can i do except make rules that might not be followed and teach the kids about keeping safe.

Trust your instinctse op!
In your position I don't think I could split with DP.
Children's safety is paramount.
So sorry your going through this

Take charge. Listen to your instincts.You don't have to make a big thing with them about it. Just stop your kids going there - use any excuse if you feel you cant say what you really feel. Do not put your kids in this situation again and you will not have to give it any more headspace. For whatever reason this man makes you feel uncomfortable - that is reason enough. You are in charge and if you are considered rude or paranoid by them so what. Kids are more important I'm afraid than what others think. Id rather be a paranoid mum with safe kids than a laid back one with who are kids at risk. I wouldn't want my kids looked after by men who think its appropriate to sit naked kids on their knees or don't have the sense to consider it inappropriate either!

I hate people who think autism and being socially inept is an excuse for creepiness. In our first year at university, an autistic guy stalked my best friend. He sent her over 50 text messages a day and found out her class schedule and followed her between classes. Then he found out where her room was and I arrived at the flat (we lived together) just in time to see my friend open her bedroom door to the creepy stalker. We reported him when he threatened to kill himself if she didn't date him.

The university was only bothered about the guy's empty threats to kill himself. We were told that the guy "didn't understand his actions" which was complete bull.

OP, I really think you should talk to your partner about how it is inappropriate for his brother to allow a half naked child on his lap. Tell him that it made you feel uneasy and get him to understand how you feel.

Good luck OP. You have made a difficult decision, but it very much sounds like the right one. If you have concerns about your partner’s ability to protect your children please seek legal advice as to how to ensure this is set out in concrete terms as part of any split

Sparkly I think there's a difference between socially inept and creepy. I hope.

If there are no indecent images of children, no harm done, you will just have to live with a guilty conscience

This wouldn’t actually help, except having evidence to report if you did find something obviously.

A lot of child abuse is opportunistic. Perpetrators may not be “paedophiles” or look at child sex abuse imagery. I am sure my father wasn’t a paedophile in the commonly understood sense of the word. I thought this was strange but have heard many similar accounts.

Not looking at csa images doesn’t mean a person isn’t a potential risk to a child.

Hi just an update. I have called the NSPCC and explained all this as best I can. They want me to speak with a trained expert on it. They're going to call me back later. The person I spoke to did mention that this might need to be addressed as part of any agreed contact arrangements through a lawyer. I had hoped to avoid that and agree contact between ourselves. When DP feels threatened he tends to get aggressive (not physically but he becomes unpredictable in his behaviour eg erratic driving). I had hoped not to provoke him too much.
I also told my mum this morning about everything and that I want to seperate and need support to do that. She agrees with me and gave me good advice about keeping us all safe and making sure I'm not alone with DP when I tell him it's over.

Good news OP. Keep strong

Why do a mum and adult son living together have a playroom?

Yanbu to trust your instinct to protect your daughter. I think the nspcc will give advice if you call anonymously - might be worth a try as it may be that there are ways you can protect your family without staying in n unhappy relationship.

well done sparklyhorse you are taking action. I hope it all goes as well as can be expected - it will get easier eventually.

Good on you op, nobody else is going to protect her, except you. Your dh cannot be relied up to do that. I am glad NSPCC is taking it seriously. Trust your instincts, they are there for a reason, it does not matter if you hurt is feelings protecting your dd.

Personally I wouldn’t give a flying crap about being unreasonable or sexist or whatever. The behaviour your describe would be giving me gut feelings too. Too often this kind of behaviour is minimised. Sounds like you’re taking sensible steps to approach a tricky situation.

I wish to god people on these threads would stop saying “would you say this if he was female? Stop being sexist”.

Do we have to pretend now that women are just as big of a risk as men then? And not that men commit 98% of all sex crimes?

It is not sexist to state facts!

@TammySwanson - by 'no harm done' I just meant no harm done by snooping. You are right - not finding any child porn on his phone or computer does not automatically mean he poses no risk to OP's child. But if OP did find something this would remove any doubts and help her safeguard her DC.

The NSPCC's suggestion of a lawyer makes sense. Seems to me your partner wouldn't respect any contact agreement just between the two of you otherwise. If there's a legally binding document he is more likely to take it seriously.

Get yourself a family lawyer, they know what they're doing. Have it all sorted before telling him about leaving the relationship. And listen to your mum about not being on your own when you tell him.

Good luck OP. I really feel for you - and agree instincts are there for a reason.

When I was 14 I met my friend's stepfather. He was creepy - I have no idea why I thought that or what it was about him but he just seemed odd. I don't think he even spoke to me, it was at her birthday party. I told my mum when I got in the car later that I didn't like that man as he was creepy. She told me off and said you mustn't talk about people like that. The following year I spent a fortnight living with them whilst we moved house. The year after that it came out that he had been sexually abusing her for years, including raping her on the morning of her 14th party. My mum was horrified and said there had been no indication he would do anything like that ...and then seemed surprised when I reminded her that I had told her he was creepy! I hadn't even realised why he was creepy, he did nothing to me and thankfully I didn't even know what child abuse was at 14 but I knew he wasn't right somehow. And the adult I said that to dismissed it to the point where she sent me to stay there!

So.....trust your instincts.

Good for you OP sounds like you've had great advice from the NSPCC and you've got your mum on board

The thing is, you have to explicitly state your concerns and how off BILs behaviour is to your husband - just dropping hints etc won’t be enough. Especially as you don’t have much faith in him to protect your kids. If you don’t explicitly state your issue, chances are that your husband WILL leave BIL alone with your kids as he won’t understand the issue. You need to explain that you don’t trust him, you find him appropriate etc. Don’t beat around the bush.

EG okay DH forgot to get her underwear/pants, so DD was left waiting naked. But WHY did BIL then decide that a naked female toddler was best placed on his lap? Why isn’t that considered inappropriate? Would your husband be okay with your brother/male friend etc having your daughter sit naked on their lap? Why didn’t BIL have the initiative to remind DH to get her some clothes, or get them himself? It’s all very concerning, or strange at best.

I've been following you thread OP and am very happy to read that you have acted on instinct. We know when something feels wrong.
Many years ago i worked with a guy , who we all felt was a bit 'creepy', including the men.
He turned out to be part of the biggest paedophile ring running out of Holland at the time.
So happy that you have RL support.

him not realising the social rules and how careful a male relative needs to be around young children

Sorry but what??

I don’t see how his holding down a not so great job, living at home and flirting with girls at uni (!?) have anything to do with being a potential paedophile.
He’s done NOTHING wrong. My 3yo DD strips off constantly and then climbs all over my dad but I don’t go labelling him a pervert!
I think the bigger issue here is what’s going on with you, and your fears and vulnerabilities. Seems to have snowballed into you now calling professionals etc when perhaps you aren’t addressing why you are feeling this way. There’s nothing wrong with being protective of your children but I can’t help but feel this poor man is being victimised just because he hasn’t had a girlfriend and is a bit weird.

I'm far more disturbed that a 3yr old understands the term vulva.
That is just weird..WTF!!

Most blokes, myself included would be very uncomfortable in the situation you described. But that's more my prudish upbringing. I was brought up to always be dressed, yet when I was school age and at friends houses they were much more comfortable about nakedness and younger siblings would stroll around the damn house with hardly any clothes on or naked if they'd got out the bath or waiting for mum to sort their clothes out. Isn't it just childhood? the age where you have little or no inhibitions. Ofcourse you maybe correct and BIL is a pervert, but it doesn't sound that way. It's only in the past couple of decades that every parent assumes every man not related to their child must be a pervert if they enjoy watching them play.

The way its going at the moment, if my sons male friends fell over and cut their knee I wouldn't think twice about sticking a plaster on the wound, if the fried was a girl, she'd probably have to wait til my partner got home or the girls mother arrived.
I used to torment my nieces relentlessly when they were kids, water fights, tickling etc etc, as soon as puberty hit It stopped abruptly, I wasn't comfortable tickling them or play fighting and I became boring uncle Charlie who used to be so much fun! How tragic is that? that society makes you feel uncomfortable with people you've known your whole life and who you would lay down your life for.
Absolutely tragic.

"Ignore the crap being put on here OP- you sound level headed and entirely appropriate in your concerns."

Nope I don't agree with this statement at all. Fair enough you have these instincts and feel you should act on them but from what you've posted you sound a tad paranoid to me.

@mrcharlie how tragic for you that you were FORCED by terrible societal norms to stop ‘tormeting’ your nieces, and behave appropriately around your adolescent female relatives. Tragic.

Ffs.