To be so worried about creepy uncle that I'm scared to seperate from DP

[sparklyhorse]

My DP's brother is 48 and lives at home with MIL and always has. He holds down a basic job. He had no friends and has never had a girlfriend or been on a date. He's intelligent (has a degree) and he's attractive. His social skills are not great - he hasn't got much to talk about and says awkward inappropriate things - not sexual but more rude and abrupt.

I don't like the way he is around DD who is 3 and DS who is 2. He is very physical with them and plays tickling games and has them on his knee all the time. He has never been left alone with them but one time I was at DMILs and she popped out and I was alone with him and kids. I was busy with DS who was a baby and he took DD upstairs to the playroom. Nothing happened as I kept looking in and they were sitting next to each other reading a book but I didn't like it and I kept saying it was time to come downstairs but he ignored me. That rang alarm bells with me.

I'm not sure whether this is just poor social skills and him not realising the social rules and how careful a male relative needs to be around young children. Or something more sinister. But I don't like it and my alarm bells have been going off every time I see him with them being so physical.

I mentioned to my DP in the nicest possible way I didn't like it (i sort of made a joke about the brother ignoring me in saying it was time to come down) but he thought I was being ridiculous as its his brother and he totally trusts him. Anyway I got DP to agree that the kids would never be left alone with any man as a way to prevent anything (I'm actually happy for them to be alone with some men, just not creepy uncle but a blanket rule seemed easier to enforce).

Tonight we were round at DMILs and she wasn't home yet. We were having dinner there so I popped to the shop for some stuff. So just DP, brother and kids there. I was gone 40 mins. Get back and DDs sitting on couch opposite uncle on his chair with no pants or trousers on and legs spread. I was totally like WTF?! I said very loudly DD why don't you have any pants on. Uncle says oh she had wet herself. I take her out immediately and find DP in the garden doing some chores and ask him why DD has no pants on in front of a man. Sorry he says, she had wet her pants so I took them off and got distracted doing something else. I said it was totally unacceptable and he was a bit sheepish and found a clean pair of pants. DD then says it was fun sitting on my uncle's knee with no pants and getting fresh air on my vulva (both children know the proper names for their parts as I had read that being able to name the parts reduced the likelihood of abuse - I looked this up specifically as worried about the uncle. We've also read children's books about how our parts are private and no one else should touch them etc).

I've decided I want to seperate from my DP for many reasons but I'm worried about what might happen with the uncle when I'm not there. DP is weak, people pleasing and will also lie to avoid confrontation so I can't trust that he will supervise his brother with the kids. What do I do?

I feel I cant stay with him just on the tiny chance something bad happens as I'm miserable. But how do I protect my children when I'm not there? I realise this post might make me sound like a nutter but I don't have issues with any other male relatives or men in general. Other male relatives don't act like this either. And I have a particularly good radar for people so much so a large part of my job is choosing which senior executives to employ for companies I consult to.

I actually feel sick about this. What can i do except make rules that might not be followed and teach the kids about keeping safe.

mrcharlie you’ve totally missed the point here. Women are right to be wary of men, as it’s almost always male relatives who abuse, not female, and child sex abuse is depressingly common. You might not like that - it spoils your fun - but that’s fact and we need to keep our children safe.
Way to go blaming OP and other parents for the climate of fear instead of abusers.

I’m amazed at the amount of people on here who think that situation is ok. It would be red flags all the way for me.

I was abused as a child, I think you're being slightly OTT, but then again my instincts of someone feeling a bit creepy were right.

I think as far as girls are concerned, sitting in awkward uncles knee, with her vulva being aired, I'm surprised he didn't feel uncomfy. As before I had children, boys didn't seem to bother me, but girls who were young, as in 5/6 and younger, wearing clothes that were revealing made me concerned. Just because you know these people exist. I'm a stickler for DD sitting with her legs together if wearing a skirt or dress. I know that's my issue, but it's just one of them things.

Read your ost and sorry that you are going through this.
Trust your instincts.
Sounds like grooming to me - BIL either has boundary issues or is normalising inappropriate contact - either way you have to act as both are unacceptable.
For all those minimising OP's instincts you should be seriously questioning their own radars.
Good on you OP.
Record everything including the advice from NSPCC so that it's clear for solicitors that you have been concerned for some time.
Boundaries too - can you lay down the law to DP, MIL and BIL that because of this inappropriate behaviour and you are now going to manage/withdraw contact if BIL is present. In no circumstances can you have BIL alone with your DD.

Because we never want to believe that these monsters are out there, people always try and push these gut feelings or warning lights out of their mind.
OP, if you have concerns then fight for them to be heard.
I sincerely hope you're wrong.

Just want to wish you good luck op.
and work with your daughter so she can learn some basic boundaries too.
Not just for this situation but its good for them to know.

OP there is no instinct to suss out abusers and paedophiles. You did nothing wrong when you trusted the man who assaulted you and you are not guilty of ignoring warning fears in that case. Paedophiles and abusers are often charming, socially successful and adept at manipulating. There is no magical ability to suss out abusers and it doesn't kick in with birth - mothers are not paedophiles detectors. You do not have to be more cautious or more attuned to your fears because you failed to listen to them once. It may be that you have some issues from the earlier assault and would benefit from talking to someone about them.

''OP there is no instinct to suss out abusers and paedophiles.''

exactly I am baffled by how misinformed this whole thread seems to be. Just because a person is odd does not mean they are a paedo, the fact that your bil sat on when you came in would suggest he had nothing to hide. Or the fact he spoke about sexually inappropriate stuff or acted sleazy in his youth... wtf many many men have done this in their time.

Plus the fact she sat on his knee could have just being spontaneous, I have often seen my young nephew run over and sit on his uncle's knee with no clothes on and his uncle is watching tv or something and thinks nothing of it. Certainly years ago people would have thought nothing of it, it is just the obsession we seem to have now over these things has gotten out of control.

A lot of you appear to forget that this man has no kids himself and that is why he will see his nieces and nephews as the closest he will ever have which is very sad really. I have often seen my brothers and uncles tickling their young nephews and nieces and they did not abuse them. They are his family and you do seem quite paranoid here. If he was a paedo it would appear more likely he would be more sneaking around and not as obvious, I think you need to be very careful before you throw accusations at people over something like that because really with what you have got it is really little to no evidence.

I thought physical interaction is how most kids interact with male relatives. I mean I never consciously thought this until this thread got me thinking about it. When we (my cousins and siblings) were kids throwing yourself bodily at your uncles etc was literally how we greeted them. We would then expect to be tossed around and tickled for a bit until a parent intervened to stop us exhausting them.

My kids also interacted with my brother, brother in law, Grandad and DH's best friend in the exact same way. My sister too for that matter but it does tend to be a man thing in my experience.

I wonder if it's a class thing as mums side were wannabe middle class were as dads family were firmly working class. Thinking about it now it was only my dads side who did the "play fighting" thing.

Bloody hell OP! I’d be running for the hills with my kids safely tucked into my kangaroo pouch!
Sounds like uncle is on the spectrum for sure. You’re unhappy with DP generally and you can’t trust him with your kids.
Enough

How are you doing OP?