To be terrified about what will happen if the Gender Identity Bill is passed?

[TheWorldAccordingToToads]

I'm a nervous wreck right now

Will it replace sex as a protected characteristic? Does that mean that women will have no legal protection at all?

I'm scared .

Duck You are ignoring the evidence because you know that you would have to concede that you are mistaken in your belief that predatory men won't take advantage of SELF IDENTIFICATION, the whole point of this thread. Or you actually don't care about women and their safety.

people who identify as a gender, different from birth

That would be trans gendered, would it not?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? No one is saying that they aren't nice people. We are talking about predators claiming to be transgender to gain access to vulnerable women in female spaces. These things have happened, as many posters have pointed out but you just keep ignoring that.

Are you being obtuse?

bev are you having a laugh, I'm not going back to check your questions.

You are deliberately refusing the answer questions and address the facts and clearly trying to derail the thread. Got to stop these pesky women discussing their rights eh? Please go away

It's precisely because I think that genuinely transgender individuals are likely to be nice people that I oppose gender self-identification and all the rest of the TRA bullshit. Because as you'd know if you'd seen the experiences recounted on here of a transwoman and the parent of a young trans person, the extremist ideology of the vocal TRAs - such as those pushing for self-identification - are harming genuine transpeople. It's now becoming so difficult and politically charged to suggest there may be a mental health element involved in gender dysphoria because of the accusations of TERF, transphobe etc if such a thought is mooted and that self-ID should be all that's necessary, that transpeople who do acknowledge that and want to seek counselling for their gender dysphoria ars unable to find therapists willing to go against the TRA ideology.

Again, I'm giving you actual life experience here not a woolly "wouldn't it be nice if everyone was nice" ostrich attitude.

You might be interested in having a look at this thread duck.

The OP is a trans women whom, just like us, disagrees with gender self identification. You might learn something from her.

Sorry bev That you had to ask 3, times. I have been shouted at from several angles on this.

The toilet issue. I remember as a teenager that the girls at school were quite nasty in the toilets. So no a man being there would not be an issue.

I have been on the receiving end of DV. I'm not immune to hard it can be.

You are deliberately refusing the answer questions and address the facts and clearly trying to derail the thread. Got to stop these pesky women discussing their rights eh? Please go away biscuit

So many questions were asked.

How was I derailing the thread!

Because you refuse to address where people have brought up incidents of women being assaulted by men claiming to be transgender and keep repeating the same stuff about "tolerance" which has nothing to do with anything.

Do you think women being assaulted is ok once any male has the right to identify himself into women's spaces? Why not just do away with sex segregation altogether in that case?

paws you are mistaken in your judgment of me. My conments were not about excusing sexual assault. I am coming from the angle that not every one who is different is dangerous.

I was going to post this earlier.

I was in a flashy restaurant with dh. We were watching all the plates, like they have this.

We ate and then my dh said the woman behind you is a man.

I would have gone for a pee. But because I've been sexually abused I won't if there is a man. I just won't.

I am coming from the angle that not every one who is different is dangerous.

I think we all understand that. It's been pointed out to you numerous times that no one thinks that. Unless you can point to a comment where anyone on this thread has said that all transgender people are dangerous? (I assume that's what you're getting at)

Fact is, if this bill is passed women will be assaulted and at the very least, many will be made to feel uncomfortable and threatened. This has happened in other countries. Can you explain why you find this acceptable?

paw I have not mentioned transgender in my posts. My responses have been about being kind to others.

But, where have I derailed the thread?

paw I have not mentioned transgender in my posts.

Except for when you said
"people who identify as a gender, different from birth, may be quite nice individuals. "

You are derailing the thread right now by again not addressing any questions put you or the actual issues being discussed, so I'm going to stop engaging. Good night

No you are not BIU, you should be terrified, and yes Gender ID will replace sex as it has done in the USA and Canada and 'woman' in terms of a biological and material reality with material consequences will cease to exist

(see what happened to Jenni Murray who only talked about biology - breast cancer etc - and gender roles to understand what's at stake here - she essentially stated a woman is an adult human female and was rebuked by her bosses at the BBC for being 'controversial. I know women getting one week bans on facebook also for just saying 'a woman is an adult human female).

This will mean all our sex protections in law will be deleted and we will become women because we identify as such not because we ARE women. Only identity will be protected.

Consequences:

Removing the legal right of women to organize politically against sex-based oppression by males

Removing the legal right of women to assemble outside the presence of men

Removing the legal right of women to educational programs created for women outside the presence of men

Eliminating data collection of sex-based inequalities in areas where females are underrepresented

Elimination of sex-based crime statistics

Eliminating athletic programs and sports competition for women and girls

Removing the legal right of women to be free from the presence of men in areas of public accommodation where nudity occurs

Elimination of grants, scholarships, board and trustee designations, representative positions, and affirmative programs for women

Removing the legal right of women to create reproductive clinics, rape crisis services, support groups, or any organizations for females

Eliminating media and all public discourse specific to females

Removal of the right of journalists to report the sex, and history, of subjects

Eliminating the legal right of lesbians to congregate publicly

Elimination of lesbian-specific organizations and advocacy groups

Removing the legal right of women to free speech related to sex roles and gender

Elimination of the legal right of women to protection from state-enforced sex-roles (appearance/behavior/thought)

Elimination of the legal right of girls to protection from state-enforced sex-roles in public education

Elimination of the patient right of dependent females to hospital/facility bed assignments separate from males

Elimination of the right of dependent females to prefer female providers for their intimate personal care requirements

Elimination of the human right of female prisoners under state confinement to be housed separately from male prisoners

Unlike any other “social justice” venture in history, Transgender Rights are unique in that they are completely based on eliminating the human rights of women. Transgender Rights are the “right” to eliminate the human rights of women. But how can such a relatively small group eliminate the legal human rights of half of the human race? Because the transgender politic is an anti-female politic, and as such receives blanket support from all male sectors who profit from the elimination of human rights for females: the state, the conservative politic, the liberal politic, the gay politic, the “queer” politic, academia, business, commerce, media.

More to the point, it doesn't really matter whether it becomes law as it's already happening.

Since 2004's gender recognition act, female crime has gone up by I think 112%, ie crimes recorded as committed by women.

The Girl Guides have already brought in a policy of Gender ID

This shit is being taught to your kids in schools

It's happening in workplaces, political parties etc.

If you saw Crimewatch this week you'll know what I mean.

it's already here and we need to fight it.

duck, gender identity doesn't exist as an objective reality. It is true that people who don't conform to gender norms in 2017 face very real difficulties. However, that also applies to people who 'identify' as their biological sex.

Obviously everyone should be able to wear dresses and make up without fear of discrimination.

However, there are very real problems if you make something that is completely abstract a protected characteristic. People who identify as female and people who are female don't necessarily share any common traits. There is no logical reason to segregate anybody on the grounds of the social construct of gender. The concept that all women feel and act a certain way has done great harm and women have been fighting against it for decades.

However, there are often reasons to provide different services on the basis of biological sex because sex is objectively real and has unavoidable consequences.

To 'be kind', there is no way to protect people according to their biological sex unless you differentiate sex from gender, and say that trans women and biological women are not the same. However, as demonstrated by the reaction to Jenni Murray's newspaper article, addressing that fact is unacceptable to many.

Girlscout, how do you reach all those consequences from a Bill that is not going to become law, and in circumstances where even if it did there would be the same protections and exceptions as exist in relation to other protected characteristics under the Equality Act?

The scales fell from my eyes 18 months to two years ago, and I've been really engaged in understanding this ever since.

The thing you need to think about is in Afghanistan women used to be free, they were like us in the swinging sixties, now look. A huge regression happened there. And it can happen here (and btw I've come to believe that trans ideology is a fundamentalist religion as toxic as the taliban)

The reluctant conclusion I've reached if you take it all of a piece with Putin, Trump, Bannon, MRAs etc etc is we are a in a full blown COUNTER REVOLUTION against women.

We really really need to wake up.

This is helpful for younger women of the 'choice' and 'inclusion' vareity

liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2015/03/03/leaving-liberal-feminism/

Have not read the whole thread and sonapologies if this has been said but there is not a snow ball's chance of this bill becoming law.

It's not a government bill, it's a private members bil. V v few private members bills become law. To do so they must be introduced early in the session, have government support and be pushed through their stages quickly and sent to the lords with many months left in the session.

None of these three NHS are true for this bill. It simply won't become law. It was introduced to provoke debate and seems to have succeeded.

Agree girl scout - it's not a question of waiting for the bill to pass, many organisations are acting already on the basis of a hazy concept of 'being kind', without questioning whether their actions make sense.

GLLU I'm happy for there to be an open debate - changes seem to be being made without any debate being allowed at all.