To be terrified about what will happen if the Gender Identity Bill is passed?

[TheWorldAccordingToToads]

I'm a nervous wreck right now

Will it replace sex as a protected characteristic? Does that mean that women will have no legal protection at all?

I'm scared .

londonrach The position is this. Maria Miller, the Member who introduced it, has until the close of business on 23 March to provide a full text, and she probably won't bother. Because on 24 March at 2.30 p.m. (if it has been printed) it will be in a long list of Bills, of varying degrees of absurdity, which can only get a Second Reading if not one Member objects. Any of them can call out Object and it will be blocked. In practice a Government Whip usually does it, but it would be as well if a few others joined the chorus.

If Ms Miller does not provide a full text the Speaker or Deputy Speaker will say Not printed and the Bill will either be dropped or join another queue at 2.30 p.m. on another Friday for the same process.

I'm not saying there may not be a problem down the road but this Bill is not it.

Thanks for that explanation AFogg - sadly it can give MPs the chance to not answer queries and to treat you as slightly hysterical for fussing about details. Or that is my experience.
I presume though that if enough people contact MPs/ inform other members of the public, then more interest will be given when it comes up in future.
Sadly Scottish MPs seem to value strutting the world stage and being seen as ultra inclusive, regardless of the views of 'the Scottish People' , a term used wantonly regardless of the truth of the matter, so changes to laws will probably come in there.

I wonder how women feel about being frisked at airports by a bloke with a cock who identifies as a woman? Or see their wife/girlfriend or daughter being frisked - and being powerless to intervene or be accused of hate speech/hate crime?

Horrible, that's how.

I'm glad I don't live in the UK. Won't visit until this madness is over.

My take on the matter: the CPS stuff says hate crimes OR hate incidents-some of those situations will be the latter. A hate incident is different from a hate crime.

No hate crime will exist without an actual crime in the first place. Eg for racially aggravated public order you need a public order offence to take place or there is no offence.

So eg verbal abuse towards a person could be a public order offence whether it's based on their "gender identity" or the fact that the person doesn't like football. The gender bit could make it a hate crime whereas liking a sport isn't a protected characteristic so that would just be a straightforward case of abusive words.

I can't think of a crime that would penalise people not wanting another person at a sleepover. That would surely contravene Article 11 ECHR (Freedom of Association). I can't foresee a situation where mass prosecution of young people is going to be encouraged.

The Protection from Harassment Act is a flexible piece of legislation but any legislation and the way it is used has to comply with European Commission for Human Rights which is higher than UK law.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Our sex is also a protected characteristic.

chicken if mentioning someone's actual sex is considered verbal abuse could that be deemed a public order offence. Eg- "I don't want my daughter frisked by a man!"...
"Don't misgender her, she has a hard enough time"
...."I. Do. Not. Want. A. Man. Frisking. My. Daughter."
"Step to one side please you are causing a disruption"... blah blah..

I'm wondering if it is more along the lines of when someone actually passes, completely. If you happen to know for a fact that they are the opposite sex to the one they are presenting, it probably means you're not allowed to reveal it.

Which will backfire spectacularly If any dodgy motivation is exposed.

Andrew I don't find your assurances comforting. Politics has become ridiculous and too many unlikely and insignificant things have become very real and significant and weirdly unstoppable in recent times.

Or see their wife/girlfriend or daughter being frisked - and being powerless to intervene or be accused of hate speech/hate crime?

This seems to be the way to wake blokes up to the crazyness. if you just talk about it they don't seem to get it. Mention their daughters and the shit hits the fan and all of a sudden they CAN see the problem with it all.

datun I'm trying to imagine the scenario. Are you thinking if you find out the female sports teacher at school is actually a bloke or something?

Does that make it a hate crime to inform female athletes that they are competing against males?

TentPegsAndWetWipes

Yes. Any situation where the person is doing it to gain an advantage, whether sexual or otherwise.

There is no doubt a lot of people claiming trans do have a very dubious motivation. And almost everybody knows it, (in that community). I think trans allies outside the community are supportive out of a desire for inclusivity, which in a lot of cases is naive. I think they are naive, not stupid.

Once they see through the more deceptive parts of the ideology, I think they will wake up.

People are already thinking that these rapists claiming they are women is not that they are a certain kind of transwoman-who-is-violent, they get a 'oh, a man!'

Unfortunately this will have a knock-on effect for all the genuine transsexuals out there. But I think they are in a very small minority, to be honest.

So Datun do you think there is a clear line that makes 'a rapist in a dress' a chancing bloke rather than a transwoman?

I am not in disagreement - just trying to work out if the is a 'no real Scotsman' fallacy in what you are saying - ie 'no real transwoman would commit rape' iyswim

I say this because I am often astonished by the commitment of time, money and life that some men will invest in their fetishes and perversions, for example making adaptations to their homes, risking breaking the law, long-term planning in positioning themselves for access, grooming, etc. And I'm sure a lot of men who are heavily invested in their fetishism actually prefer to be in that space than the real world.
If their fetish is for pretending to be a woman I think some are likely to believe that they are actually a woman. And if a sex offender is like this, I don't believe it is so clear cut that they are a predatory man taking advantage of (proposed)gender identity law rather than a sex- offender who genuinely believes they are a transwoman.

I don't think being trans has a bearing on whether you are a predator or not. It will be the same percentage as amongst the general population. Although, having said this, I do think there is a sexual element to (almost) the entire thing and a misogynistic one at that.

I'm also not convinced that people with AGP are necessarily predatory in the traditional sense - in that they will jump on you.

I think the sexual compulsion to be a woman is fed by being in women's intimate spaces, it's like their version of porn.

And I don't think any one of them truly believe they are a woman. It is a fantasy that needs to be constantly validated.

I'm not sure if that addresses your comment or not!

Yes it does... I think we are on the same page. Thanks

The ideology attracts misogynists. It really, really does. And I don't know why.

There is a lot of desire mixed in with self hatred, narcissism and a need to control. But I don't how that fits in with gender dysphoria or AGP. Why not just be a shitty, mixed up man?

I think the medical profession needs to step up and classify it as a personality disorder and stop the free pass these lunatics currently have to indoctrinate children and young people in their deranged ideology. I just read about that poor teenage girl who got a double mastectomy because she got swept up in all the bullshit.

'no real transwoman would commit rape'

I kind of think this is true tbh. A 'real' transwoman would suffer sex dysphoria. Meaning they would be disgusted with their male body and want nothing to do with it. There is nothing more 'male' than raping someone with your penis.

Kind of like how no 'true' transman would ever get pregnant. As they would be disassociated from their female body, and pregnancy is the epitome of womanhood surely...if you felt you should be a man, pregnancy would be horrific to go through.

Just thinking out loud really..some of this may not make sense

Someone made a good point in a discussion I was on the other day. They said that lots of these online transactivists on Reddit etc probably aren't even out as trans to people they know. They just do it online and are fantasists and describe things that never happened, and they get caught up in a self-reinforcing hatred of women just like the men on Return of Kings or any other MRA site. You can be anyone online.

I agree WM. But we're not supposed to say that all trans people have dysphoria now. So literally anyone can identify as trans.

The ideology attracts misogynists. It really, really does. And I don't know why.

Removing the legal right of women to organize politically against sex-based oppression by males (very convenient for men)

Removing the legal right of women to assemble outside the presence of men (This has always been regarded as threatening by men, MN is often talked down publically for being a bastion of women together, and think of all the terminology for a group of women talking together - starting with 'gossip' which used to be an acceptable reason to tie a woman up and dunk her in a pond if men disapproved.)

Removing the legal right of women to educational programs created for women outside the presence of men

Elimination of sex-based crime statistics

Eliminating athletic programs and sports competition for women and girls

Removing the legal right of women to be free from the presence of men in areas of public accommodation where nudity occurs

Elimination of grants, scholarships, board and trustee designations, representative positions, and affirmative programs for women

Removing the legal right of women to create reproductive clinics, rape crisis services, support groups, or any organizations for females

There's more: Taken from k8monsta.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/transgender-rights-the-elimination-of-the-human-rights-of-women/

Essentially its a misogynists' dream. There's a new and totally socially acceptable way of removing these rights from women and women can't say a thing. This is largely why there are massive donations to the trans movement from odd and unexpected quarters. It's also very quietly suppressing gay rights on the side, again in a very modern, liberal, socially acceptable way.

I agree, I think it's fairly obvious why misogynists are pushing the transagenda.

That wasn't meant to put down what you said Datun, just agreeing with rumbling.