To start a campaign to prevent clinics from offering "gender scans"

[NNChangeAgain]

I've been following the trans debate, both here and in RL and it strikes me that most of the disagreement and arguments stem from the language and words used.

One of the biggest misunderstandings is the way in which the word "gender" has become interchangable with the word "sex". And no one is more guilty of that than the clinics which offer "gender scans" during pregnancy.

They are not gender scans though, are they? They are scans to determine the external sexual organs of the foetus. Even a foetal blood test identifies the genetic sex of the baby, not the gender.

Is this misrepresentation? Telling a pregnant woman the "gender" of the baby they are carrying is impossible - surely it should stop? And just maybe, it would begin to resolve some of the conflict over the trans debate at the same time ?

You have to Much time on your hands

That campaign won't get anywhere

Ridiculous. And unreasonable.

Honestly? Get over yourself.

I don't think it would have any effect in the trans debate.

People refer to gender scans because we can be terribly squeamish about saying the word 'sex' out loud.

People thinking they can turn themselves into men/women in the face of it being a biological impossibility is a whole other thing.

Are you talking about private scans or the 20 week scan? Because the 20 week scan is for anomalies it just so happens that the physical sex is visible at that point.

YANBU but I think it's a loser. People use gender because it's more prim than sex. Which is ridiculous but here we are.

Oh ffs how about if they offer a disclaimer saying "Whilst we may be able to tell you which anatomical parts your baby has, we cannot guarantee that they will identify as the gender usually associated with those parts once older'

Ridiculous.

A baby with a penis is referred to as male, a baby with a vagina is referred to as female. A baby can't be transgender as they are a baby.

A scan is by definition simply an imaging process, to allow you to "see" inside the body, are you going to also start a campaign to ban people from looking at their baby genitals in real life too?

It's official political correctness has actually gone bat shit crazy,

Seriously? Maybe campaign for some of the thousands of children living in poverty in this country. Or the hundreds of unaccompanied asylum seeking minors sleeping on the streets of Calais because the only home they knew has been destroyed. I think your campaign has absolutely no mileage.

What sort of campaign?

Do you mean you want it discussed in parliment?

"Whilst we may be able to tell you which anatomical parts your baby has, we cannot guarantee that they will identify as the gender usually associated with those parts once older'

But that's exactly what they are doing, isn't it?

Only, that has been forgotten, and parents believe that their baby is being assigned a "gender".

I have a transgender child, I also had a gender scan, maybe I should sue the clinic because years later it seems they got the gender wrong

YAB ridiculous, and gender vs sex is something that impacts my life constantly.

worra I was thinking of mass mailings to Trading Standards departments about clinics in their areas

I am sorry but what is the difference between sex and gender? I do not see how this kind of scanning could provide any useful information other than which chromosomes are present.

elsa want do you mean, you had a "gender scan"? You didn't, did you? The clinic didn't tell you the gender of your baby.

The evolution of language has confused the meaning of the two words.

It really didn't matter to me. I just wanted to know if I was having a boy or a girl really.

But arrange a march on Downing Street if you feel strongly.

I mean that's what the clinic called it

[Biscuit] OP

I think you're energy would be better directed to more pressing issues, as PP above have suggested

what is the difference between sex and gender?

Sex is biologically defined by chromosomes, and usually determined through the presentation of genital organs.

Gender is the way in which an individual presents to society and is self determined.

So what would you want them to say?

"Congratulations your baby has male/female sexual organs?" and not "Congratulations it's a boy/girl?", would that be more PC?

If you want to bang out a few emails about something you clearly believe in, you can't really be unreasonable.

Damnit my biscuit didn't work. Sorry!