To start a campaign to prevent clinics from offering "gender scans"

[NNChangeAgain]

I've been following the trans debate, both here and in RL and it strikes me that most of the disagreement and arguments stem from the language and words used.

One of the biggest misunderstandings is the way in which the word "gender" has become interchangable with the word "sex". And no one is more guilty of that than the clinics which offer "gender scans" during pregnancy.

They are not gender scans though, are they? They are scans to determine the external sexual organs of the foetus. Even a foetal blood test identifies the genetic sex of the baby, not the gender.

Is this misrepresentation? Telling a pregnant woman the "gender" of the baby they are carrying is impossible - surely it should stop? And just maybe, it would begin to resolve some of the conflict over the trans debate at the same time ?

Ah.

Disappointed you were offering options as opposed to actually being a crazy :)

Sorry ludders

Just covering the bases

Although now i have figured out how to pronounce the word patriarchy i do enjoy yelling it at the kids

Completely out of context but it keeps them on their toes

"What time is tea"

"Dunno...patriarchy innit"

Its my word for the year, i need a new one for 2017

"What time is tea"

"Dunno...patriarchy innit"

Its my word for the year, i need a new one for 2017

Can I suggest appropriation or construct.

You're brilliant, by the way.

I thought it was basically saying that it sould be sex scan as that is what it sex...the sex of the baby

It is.

Although I'd be lying if I didn't expect there to be some debate - I anticipated that there would be some defence of the extensive misuse of the word "gender".

The accusations of sock puppetry, and vitriol from peanut, has surprised me a little, but I know that MN is a broad church . What I didn't anticipate is that I have been aligned with both transactivists and TERFs by different people on this thread - which does reinforce my belief that correct use of the word "gender" can be seen as a way of strengthening either position.

I'm sure that the range of views displayed on this thread is reflected in the Trading Standards Depts across the UK - so a mass mailing would be welcomed by some, and met with bewilderment, lack of comprehension and outright anger by others.

Oh thank you ludders

Like the sound of appropriation...although construct used correctly (or not in my case) oh decisions, decisions

Do you understand that assuming everyone who doesn't identify as trans proves that sex and gender correspond is incredibly problematic, Sansa?

That's not what I was saying. I'm cool with what the OP is proposing, in fact. I'd happily support her. Don't assume.

How do you define trans?

I don't know, how do you? Happy to learn - beyond that even, very much want to learn.

So what exactly are you up in arms about, OP?

The fact that people get the definitions of sex and gender mixed up?

OR

Assigning genders to babies?

Also loving the MN bingo. 🙊

Isn't it pretty clear this is about getting the terms mixed up?

wow.... considering I'm going for a gender scan in a few days maybe I should ask if they think it might be trans...
or if I could trade in the penis for a vagina....

how ridiculous... maybe get a new hobby...or start reading other things.

TMTOYH!

876TaylorMade I don't understand your post. It's like we're on different threads

What is it you think the OP is saying?

Why are you saying you should ask if it''s trans? I get you're taking the piss but I don't understand your point at all?

I agree with you, to some extent, OP. It's lazy use of language

But I also agree with the person who said it's because people are squeamish about using the word sex in public

People who don't enjoy thinking much, always accuse others of "overthinking".

The fact that people get the definitions of sex and gender mixed up?

The words aren't being 'mixed up'. They have become interchangeable in casual conversation.

And that's fine, until the discussion turns to issues in which the differences between sex (a biologically determined fact) and gender (a nebulous, analogue, self definition) are critical to a minority group being treated equally and with respect.
Then, the inadvertent misuse of the words becomes offensive and discriminatory.