To start a campaign to prevent clinics from offering "gender scans"

[NNChangeAgain]

I've been following the trans debate, both here and in RL and it strikes me that most of the disagreement and arguments stem from the language and words used.

One of the biggest misunderstandings is the way in which the word "gender" has become interchangable with the word "sex". And no one is more guilty of that than the clinics which offer "gender scans" during pregnancy.

They are not gender scans though, are they? They are scans to determine the external sexual organs of the foetus. Even a foetal blood test identifies the genetic sex of the baby, not the gender.

Is this misrepresentation? Telling a pregnant woman the "gender" of the baby they are carrying is impossible - surely it should stop? And just maybe, it would begin to resolve some of the conflict over the trans debate at the same time ?

I still want to know what percent of the UK population is trans

How do you define trans?

I am totally banjaxed by the number of people who clearly haven't read the OP - or any of OP's clarifications - and thus absolutely no idea what the thread is supposed to be about!

What is the average reading age on MN, I ask myself...

I am totally banjaxed by the number of people who clearly haven't read the OP - or any of OP's clarifications - and thus absolutely no idea what the thread is supposed to be about!

I want to believe that it's just people who feel actually reading a thread is beneath them, but given some of the posts I suspect that it's a bit of a Dunning-Kruger issue - that they genuinely lack the knowledge to notice all the signs that it's not about what they then go on to rant about.

Oh no, I think we are all well aware of what this thread is all about

A load of crap, that's what!

And there, you see, I'd already exonerated you, MumOnTheRun, because you're clearly in too much of a tizz to read anything!

I can read ta

Differing opinion and I'm 'in a tizz'?

Mum on the Run Catching Up... I was making a playful comment about your username, but it appears to have gone straight past you.

Fuck me. I would advise you not to go into stand up, prawn. That was fucking woeful.

Peanut, that sort of language really isn't acceptable (both the use of phrases such as 'fucking nutter' and 'funny farm', along with your atrocious use of grammar).

OP I understand where you are coming from. It's exactly because people sren't aware of think the implications of confusing gender and sex - and when presented with the issue chose to ridicule rather than understand - that we are heading for this ridiculous world where sex and gender are being confused and women's rights are being thrown under the bus.

I think a campaign on mixing up gender and sex at scans is too narrow though.

What's needed is a more general campaign to educate people on why it matters and to call out companies and especially public bodies wherever it happens. The scientist example above bring a good one.

Not rtwholeft yet but word of warning OP. My sil is American and gender reveal parties are a big thing over there. My mum wanted to take a present to the states for the baby, as she was travelling out for the party. Having been shopping with her and hearing her loudly tell shop assistants that she needed something for a sex party, I'm happy to keep the word gender for now!
I needed mind bleach to get over that shopping trip

I'd forgotten about gender reveal parties, aderyn - another totally inaccurate use of the word.

I think the op has a point and I think it comes down to the fact that many, many people don't actually know what the word gender means. That and embarrassment about using the word sex.

Also I wonder where the word gender comes from? It sounds like it might derive from the genitals, if it does, that's not going to help and I can see how that would lead to confusion.

fakenamefornow nor do they care.

I recall (I loved etymology at Uni) it comes from Latin genus: kind, family or sort. It moved through French leaving them with genre (of course used in English) and became gender. In the old French it became a linguistic definition of type of noun, male, female or neutral although in French the gender of a noun has nothing to do with English ideas of masculinity or femininity. 'Flower' is a masculine noun, IIRC.

Just realised I've never made a post so relevant to my username :)

I dont really get the viterol on the thread

I thought it was basically saying that it sould be sex scan as that is what it sex...the sex of the baby

It cant check the gender because either

1. gender is based on personality, likes and dislikes and therefore cant be seen

2. people may self identify as something different to their sex

3. gender is a social construct invented by the patriarchy to keep women in their place

If thats not the case then i am on the wrong thread

This thread very clearly evidence about the confusion about the terms.

No confusion here. Baffled but not confused.

I have never heard anyone say anything other than they are going for a 12/20 week scan TBF. Or maybe an 'ultrasound scan'.

I think it might have helped had the OP out only "gender" in inverted commas, instead of the whole phrase "gender scans".

Not a criticism, OP, just wondering.

put

3) gender is a social construct invented by the patriarchy to keep women in their place

Anyone else playing MN Bingo?

sparking

I went for a private sex scan

It was promoted as such

Our hospital wouldnt confirm the scan during the 20 week one. But that was nearly 14 years ago so things may have changed

ludders

I know different people on mumsnet have different views as to what gender is

Just trying to cover most/all the options