All PIV = rape??

[Flashbangandgone]

Stumbled across this article...

witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

Seems not only to be strongly arguing that all PIV is necessarily rape, but is incredulous that a feminist could think differently! AIBU to think this is bonkers or has the virtually the whole population of women (who don't think this way) just been brainwashed?!

Toxic, it's far too easy for folk to dismiss feminists as "loons" since that is the prevailing societal viewpoint

bullshit like you are talking just makes it even easier

posting this crap in a high traffic area like AIBU does it again

Do you realise how patronising you sound vestal? Do you not get how radical feminism and views like those expressed on that blog can and do put young women off the idea of feminism?

I like Witchwind. Well, to be more precise, I very much doubt I would like her if we met. But her analytical theories often open a different way of thinking about things. It's ages since I read the PIV/Rape post, but I do remember suddenly seeing why some feminists take this position. And, as someone's already said, if you extend the thought to "Can any woman truly consent to PIV under patriarchy?" it gets a lot more nuanced, and impossible to answer easily.

Witchwind is one of the feminist thinkers, though, who seem adamant that female sexual satisfaction can be equally well, or better, achieved without PIV. I can categorically state this is not true for my body, and it's physical not mental/cultural - trust me, I've tried extensively to prove the theory!

It's a pretty niche view though. It's not mainstream policy of the WEP for instance. The woman on the Clapham omnibus wouldn't be likely to stumble across a blog like that, and then conclude that actually, equal pay and the vote and education are not for her after all.
The post has been shared a gazillion times. Not by people who support her point of view, I'd guess

zoo feminists as a group don't dismiss PIV as such

it's a niche viewpoint with some interesting angles, many of which apply to groups of women that would never even be in the position of posting on MN

let's not dismiss their plight

Toxic, you are doing it again

you are conflating "radical feminism" and "all PIV is rape"

you are wrong to do so

Then what would you call her if not a radical feminist? An extremist?!

Toxic and others. I'm a radical feminist. Radical feminists do not all think with one mind. And I've never put a young woman off feminism!

"Do you realise how patronising you sound"

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound, Toxic?

People post opinions day in, day out on the internet. For anyone to say that one lay person's opinion posted in 2013 "ruins" an entire political movement with 100 years or more of roots is ... incredible.

Either way I stand by views like "all piv is rape" can and will put some off feminism as can other radical views

There is nothing h owever wrong in women who don't like the idea of PIV sex expressing that view.

?? She was doing a lot, lot more than saying she didn't personally like PIV!!

Radical feminist doesn't mean extreme feminist. It means targeting the roots of societal structures, rather than more "surface" changes.

Then what would you call her if not a radical feminist? An extremist?!

Reading between the lines, I'd call her a woman who's had some very bad experiences with penis-owners.

Like at least 25% of women, so have I. Each woman's response will differ according to the individual.

Radical feminists are not Cyberwomen or ants, all thinking as one

Agree with ahell

Took me ages to understand that radical feminist doesnt mean extremist feminist

Apparently i am a radical feminist who knew?

But their very existence is due to PIV - I've read some extreme feminist literature - well not that extreme describing the penis as the gun/knife etc. I really don't get the argument. We come out the way that one half
of us went in. Can't be no chicken without no eggs unless we go for a post apocalyptic society made up exclusively of women. [help emoticon] Now Benny Hill would have had a field day..... "The worm that turned."

Toxic, you need to do a little bit of reading up on feminism before you continue to make a bit of a twit of yourself

You don't even need to subject yourself to Dworkin if you can't stomach it. Just listen to the posters on this thread for a start

Toxic, I'm as rad as they come

I love cock.

is that clear enough for you ?

All of our existence is due to PIV, yes. But couples don't only have PIV when trying to conceive.

Most of us will have a raped woman or two in our ancestry as well, of course (a great great who believed in his conjugal rights). Marital rape was only made illegal in 1991, after all.

Rufus

Janecc et al - the thrust (sorry!) of her argument is that, during any PIV encounter, the woman's at greater physical risk than the man. This is unarguable.

Obviously, this is more true in some situations than others. There are large parts of Africa where men dislike a lubricated vagina, so they put talc on their penis or in the vagina to increase friction. This is a serious health risk to women. Also, we now have large male populations worldwide, who've gained their sex education from porn and are therefore always violent. I could go on but won't :)

I don't think she sounds radical. She does odd. But to say 'extreme' is to suggest this is at the far end of a continuum, like dark blue is at the far end of the spectrum of blues.

This woman's views don't read to me like one end of a spectrum that contains other feminist thoughts.

AF, succinct as ever!

The problem, is most (not all) men are a waste of cocktails.

Erm, well yes cocktails and cock Tbh

arf