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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

All PIV = rape??

588 replies

Flashbangandgone · 21/05/2016 21:28

Stumbled across this article...

witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

Seems not only to be strongly arguing that all PIV is necessarily rape, but is incredulous that a feminist could think differently! AIBU to think this is bonkers or has the virtually the whole population of women (who don't think this way) just been brainwashed?!

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 26/05/2016 10:56

Yep. Post 6- "
"That person sounds like a bitter, twisted, sour faced twat to be fair"

BertrandRussell · 26/05/2016 11:02

yep. There was quite a lot of nastiness and abuse. Directed at the blogger quoted.

And to those who thought talking about and around what she said was an interesting thing to do.

GarlicShake · 26/05/2016 12:04

Nice graphic, Buffy.

EveryoneElsie · 26/05/2016 12:07

Her writings can only do harm to feminism, and be used against it, which is why I've advocated all along that this kind of thing should be condemned by feminists...

....there are loads of people out there who like to pick on one person who is a feminist or one view and say well that just goes to prove what an awful lot these feminists are.*

No one, especially me, has said that on here. But if you want to accept her views as a legitimate expression of feminism, then you're only providing ammunition to those who wish to undermine feminism.

Perhaps OP could go to the feminist group that sent her to this blog and explain those points to them.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 26/05/2016 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Flashbangandgone · 26/05/2016 13:15

I wonder, could this be a communication problem? OP, do you feel as though the sort of writing Witchwind does is harmful to the sort of feminism that seems fair and right, because it allows anti-feminists to hold it up as an example of what you secretly actually believe, and how feminism has gone too far, when actually you believe that if you could just get them to understand how reasonable 'real' feminists are, how we only want what's fair to women, and if they could just focus on that not on crazy hypothetical (or not, who knows) stuff, we'd get there a lot faster? It's like it taints your perfectly logical and fair version of what equality ought to be?

Precisely! Although my hope was to reclaim feminism from the extremism that gives those antagonistic to feminists a convenient target with which to beat feminism... Yes, those who are antagonistic to feminism in any form will always want to attack it, but the likes of witchwind and her extremism makes their job so much easier!

However, for doing this - admitted doggedly - I have been attacked in a way that those doing the attacking would never attack witchwind.... This makes me think there's something wrong with the feminist movement (rather than feminist ideals) and why I am not reluctant to call my a feminist, which I believe is a shame.

OP posts:
Flashbangandgone · 26/05/2016 13:16

"I am reluctant" rather than "I am not reluctant"

OP posts:
EveryoneElsie · 26/05/2016 13:19

Utter bullshit.
This blog was written 3 years ago.
You speak about feminism as if it is a tangible thing. What do you mean by 'feminism', and it not speaking out about something that was done years ago?

when and how should feminsism speak out against this blog? What would please you?

You blame feminism for disappointing you because you say it had not roundly condemned this blog. And say thats why you wont call yourself a feminist.

Well then dont call yourself anything. In any group of people, one will disappoint you. If you cant bear to be associated with them thats your problem.

It is not up to 'feminism' to appeal to anti feminists in any way.

AHellOfABird · 26/05/2016 13:19

"- I have been attacked in a way that those doing the attacking would never attack witchwind."

Apart from being called hard of thinking by Lurcio, which was mild compared to some of your analogies to those disagreeing with you, where have you been attacked?

If witch wind posted on MN with a link to the PIV blog, given the posts on here in disagreement with her, do you honestly think there wouldn't be a robust discussion with her?

Your last post is disingenuous.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 26/05/2016 13:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GarlicShake · 26/05/2016 13:46

Anti-feminists - of which there are many, patriarchy having the benefit and all - will use any old quote they think 'proves' feminists are insane man-haters. This is just one of them. Another favourite is Marilyn French's "All men are rapists and that's all they are" - which is a quote from a fictional character in her novel The Women's Room.

It's slightly odd, given that you don't have to go any further than your local at lunchtime to hear shockingly misogynist quotes, which could be hoisted as evidence that all men are insane woman-haters. There are more than plenty of woman-hating quotes by famous male thinkers, political leaders, authors, news presenters and the rest, too. Yet the same dozen provocative statements by well-known feminists are regularly hauled out for derision. Have you not thought about why it might be so?

There's a blog post about this phenomenon here.

BertrandRussell · 26/05/2016 13:46

"However, for doing this - admitted doggedly - I have been attacked in a way that those doing the attacking would never attack witchwind"

Have you? I must have missed you being attacked..........Hmm

EveryoneElsie · 26/05/2016 15:36

There are more anti feminists than there are feminist extremists, and they are not afraid to air their views.
Yet your claim that there are feminist extremists makes you shy away from feminism, even though you can only find one to quote.

Today, underage girls will be forced to marry, girls will be refused an education, and girls and women stoned or flogged for being raped.
And tomorrow, and all the tomorrows.

Nothing that you have endured on this thread comes close to that sort of attack.
Nothing that men have to endure comes close.

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